photograph byJoe Schumacher | Blogger Joe Schumacher visits Morningside Heights pizzeria Koronet and observes some strange behavior. Koronet, for those of you who don't know, is known for slices that can be described as "as big as your head." In his blog entry Extra Value Is What You Get, Mr. Schumacher says:
While I was eating, three teenagers with southeast Ohio accents came in and also got slices. Koronet's slices are so large that you have to fold them in order to eat them. These guys weren't folding and it wasn't a pretty sight. I was about to show them how to fold their slice when the unforgivable happened. One guy asked at the counter for marinara sauce for dipping and the [other guy] asked for ranch dressing. Ranch dressing??? They were beyond my help.
We're a bit more forgiving at Slice; half the staff here grew up in the Midwest, you see. And, after hours of pizza-related observations made in the Heartland, we can state with some authority that those Buckeyes were dipping their endcrusts in the marinara and the ranch, not the slice itself. Not that endcrust dipping is any more appetizing, though.
In Lawrence, Kansas, late-night pizza deliveries from Pizza Shuttle and Gumby's would often arrive accompanied by little containers of ranch dressing for endcrust dipping. I tried it once. Bleh. Our take at Slice is: If you have to dress the endcrust with something to make it edible, you haven't done your job as a pizzamaker. That said, I often dressed endcrusts with the honey that the hippie pizzeria offered. It was just too thick and bready otherwise.
OK. Enough reminiscing. Mr. Schumacher has a unique take on Koronet: "The slices are large enough that I find myself shaking Parmesan on one section, hot pepper on another section, and oregano on a third."
Ah. Not only did you maximize value, Mr. Shumacher, you've also gained extra variety.
UPDATE: Mr. Schumacher e-mails with some new ranch-dressing-on-pizza info:
Coincidentally, I just saw a tv commercial for pizza with dipping sauces in NYC (Pizza Hut maybe?). I reflexively recoiled. I don't know how I can stress how antithetical to the Southern Italian palate that is.
I refuse to believe that deep dish pizza is the enemy. Why can't we all just get along... and gang up on something more worthy of venom? How about Sweet-N-Low?
Im currently living in Oklahoma City , and its very common here for people to dip or slather their pizza in ranch dressing. Not the crust only , the whole piece ... Ive tried it a few times , its an aquired taste , but i like it every now and again. All the pizza is shit to begin with so it doesnt make a difference.
I could see myself trying ranch dressing as a crust dip, but I got the impression the guy at Koronet wanted to put the dressing on top of his slice like maphive described.
Nancy, my impression skills are such that my se ohio accent sounds an awful lot like my french accent. To be sure, the accent is more accurately described as Appalachian, but my exposure to it was from my days teaching in Ohio and having some students from that area of the state.
Wow, thanks for the love NY. Perhaps those kids were dipping because the crust or slice for that matter wasn't too good. Were they approached and asked where they were from or is it just easy to attack us in Ohio. That's okay though we're good people out here and as an Italian from Cleveland, our pizza is just as good as that of the Big Apple. Better in my opinion.
Tony: Koronet slices are known for their quantity, not quality, so, yeah, they probably did want something to spice it up.
And I don't think we were really knocking the Ohio kids. Sure, we linked to someone else's post who did knock them and if we wanted to leave well enough alone, we wouldn't have. But we thought it was a good jump-off for discussion on dipping or adding sauce/dressing to pizza. Clearly it has sparked discussion on the subject, oddly enough.
I also know you're good people out there. A good friend of mine here in New York is an Ohio transplant, and she's awesome. She reps your state nicely, and I think all the more of you Buckeyes because of her.
some of my friends here (chicago) ALWAYS put ranch on their pizza. they dont like pour it on.. they dip it. you should try it.. it's pretty good, even if it sounds gross. i usually only do it when i'm eating pizza with them.
Guess I should've originally written "out of towners" or something less specific! :) I was poking fun at the stereotypical, intolerant New Yorker pizza purist "the NY way is the only way" attitude as much as anything.
Tony, what Cleveland pizza places would you recommend? I lived in Bowling Green for several years and once dated an Italian woman from Cleveland. It wasn't pizza, but one of my most fondly remembered meals was at La Dolce Vita on Mayfield Rd.
I have to disagree about Cleveland pizza. Very few decent places, outside of Mama Santas in Little Italy. Most places make the crust too thick, the cheese is meh, and the sauce is too pasty. I'll have to check out La Dolce Vita.
Sorry for shooting my jaw a bit early there. A bit jumpy I guess.:) Anyway, as far as pizza joints go, there is a place called Papa Joe's in a little town outside of Cleveland called Vermilion. Inside Cleveland itself,La Dolce Vita definitley is a damn fine slice. There is also a place down in Little Italy called Baricelli Inn. Now this place is fancy as far as the plates go but you can get a pizza rustica that makes you cry. Fresh tomatoes and basil drizzled in extra virgin olive oil on a crust made right thee and grilled as you stated in another article BUT with a slight difference. They use wood and the grill is a bell grill where the smoke imparts a nice flavor that is not too smokey so it tastes like you're eating an ashtray (but there's a place down the street, Angelao's where as you could eat an ashtray if you ordered one!). Oh man, there are so many nice little mom and pop joints through out Cleveland that make a nice pie. Now you are correct in the point that Ohio pie is not like NY pie. The end crust is a bit thicker than that of NY and often flavored. Not all of us are dippers but I gotta say to ya, when I make mine at home I dip because I always have so much lovely sauce I made left. Can't let it go to waste. No matter where you go, you will get good and bad pie. Hell, I went to Napoli two years ago and had a pie that I thought tasted like dried tomatoes with cheap oil drizzled on. Yeah, I know it was done in the way of their forefathers and theirs before but I wanted some good pizza damn it. All kidding aside I did have some that was out of the universe there. Hey Joe, did you ever have Myle's down in BG? (That was my alma mater. Folks you gotta try this stuff. I will not say it is the best pie at all. It is very interesting though. You get peperonis in stacks like poker chips and the cheese is so thick you have to bite it thre to four times to get through the stuff. the sauce, in my opinion, is great though. Just enough spice with the sweet tomato makes it truly nice. The place rocks at two in the morning after chasing tail in a small college town. Cheers folks and again my apologies for jumping the gun and talking up.
Have to tell you about some dressing and pizza stuff. Used to manage John's Pizzeria (the three besides Bleecker), and it was very common amongst the staff to dip the pizza in the House Vinagrette. As a native New Yorker, I viewed this as repulsive, but upon trying it found myself very quickly converted. The vinegar meshes well with the tomato sauce, and the oil in the dressing livens up what can be a dry slice sometimes. Now that I own a place, I find myself sometimes dipping my pizza in certain salad dressings, not to hide the true flavor (quite good alone), but to mix it up a little, as I do eat it every day. My only suggestion is to keep an open mind, as this phenomenon is not strictly subject to non-native New Yorkers.
Whoah! As a former Lawrence resident (and first time visitor to Slice), the mere mention of Gumby's and Pizza Spittle really brings back the bad pizza memories.
What was the place on Mass. Street that had decent pies? I've been trying to remember the name of that place for a couple of weeks now.
I moved to the DC metro area for 18 years and have watched a couple of OK pizza places open up here. It's all relative, when the best pizza in town was at a local place called Jerry's Subs and Pizza. Pretty sad when "Bertucci's" becomes your favorite local place. I travel to White Plains couple times a year and drive back pies from Broadway Pizza (sicilian) and Abatino's (thin). My wife thinks I am crazy (yet she enjoys the pizza as much as I do). I will be in the city soon for the first time in many years and am trying to figure out the top two places to hit in the day that I will be there. After all the research on the Net, I really don't even know where to begin because everybody has their opinion. This (Slice) is a great website that I just stumbled across. Just writing this note is making me hungry for a quality pie - too bad I have drive a few hours or hop on a plane to get it.
Re: 'No Real Pizza In DC,' there is one place worth checking out -- A.V. Ristorante on New York Avenue, NW. It is thin crust, with lots of garlic and great taste. A.V. is an old fashioned Italian restaurant that has been a family operation for many years, and it's the best in the DC metro area. A distant second place would be a fairly new pizza restaurant called Palisades Pizza on McArthur Boulevard in NW DC.
Ok I don't know about the whole ranch thing but there's something else that has kind of a following here in Oregon- honey. Yep just a dab but on pepperoni or sausage pizza it's fantastic, that whole, sweet spicy thing. Don't knock it 'till you try it trust me!
I don't know. I've never liked pizza by itself. Maybe the tomato sause is to spicy for me or maybe it's the taste. But I've never been able to eat pizza w/o dipping it in ranch. It doesn't matter the quality, it's the taste of the pizza I don't like. I found myself dipping Chicago style pizza from Chicago too. I only dip though, pouring it on top is gross.
All toppings actually. I dip ham & pineapple. Sometimes I drop pineapple pieces into the ranch and push them onto the slice even if they are covered in ranch. Green Pepper, cheese or pepporoni also.
I dip thin crust Mexican style pizza into sour cream though, those are spicy.
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photograph by Joe Schumacher | Blogger Joe Schumacher visits Morningside Heights pizzeria Koronet and observes some strange behavior. Koronet, for those of you who don't know, is known for slices that can be described as "as big as your head." In his blog entry Extra Value Is What You Get, Mr. Schumacher says:
21 Comments:
Coincidentally, I just saw a tv commercial for pizza with dipping sauces in NYC (Pizza Hut maybe?). I reflexively recoiled. I don't know how I can stress how antithetical to the Southern Italian palate that is.
Slice la depressionada at 4:40PM on 08/13/04
Jeez, I'd like to ask Joe for an impression of a southeastern Ohio accent. I'm darn curious to know what it sounds like.
Slice Nancy at 4:41PM on 08/13/04
Dipping's okay but deep-dish is considered dreck?
I refuse to believe that deep dish pizza is the enemy. Why can't we all just get along... and gang up on something more worthy of venom? How about Sweet-N-Low?
Slice missginsu at 8:03PM on 08/14/04
I just like flipping Chicago shit.
Adam Kuban at 10:39PM on 08/14/04
Im currently living in Oklahoma City , and its very common here for people to dip or slather their pizza in ranch dressing. Not the crust only , the whole piece ... Ive tried it a few times , its an aquired taste , but i like it every now and again. All the pizza is shit to begin with so it doesnt make a difference.
Slice maphive at 2:10AM on 08/16/04
I could see myself trying ranch dressing as a crust dip, but I got the impression the guy at Koronet wanted to put the dressing on top of his slice like maphive described.
Nancy, my impression skills are such that my se ohio accent sounds an awful lot like my french accent. To be sure, the accent is more accurately described as Appalachian, but my exposure to it was from my days teaching in Ohio and having some students from that area of the state.
Slice joe at 10:55AM on 08/16/04
Wow, thanks for the love NY. Perhaps those kids were dipping because the crust or slice for that matter wasn't too good. Were they approached and asked where they were from or is it just easy to attack us in Ohio. That's okay though we're good people out here and as an Italian from Cleveland, our pizza is just as good as that of the Big Apple. Better in my opinion.
Slice Tony at 1:14PM on 08/16/04
Tony: Koronet slices are known for their quantity, not quality, so, yeah, they probably did want something to spice it up.
And I don't think we were really knocking the Ohio kids. Sure, we linked to someone else's post who did knock them and if we wanted to leave well enough alone, we wouldn't have. But we thought it was a good jump-off for discussion on dipping or adding sauce/dressing to pizza. Clearly it has sparked discussion on the subject, oddly enough.
I also know you're good people out there. A good friend of mine here in New York is an Ohio transplant, and she's awesome. She reps your state nicely, and I think all the more of you Buckeyes because of her.
Besides: Cleveland Rocks!
Adam Kuban at 1:48PM on 08/16/04
some of my friends here (chicago) ALWAYS put ranch on their pizza. they dont like pour it on.. they dip it. you should try it.. it's pretty good, even if it sounds gross. i usually only do it when i'm eating pizza with them.
Slice rachelle at 2:41PM on 08/16/04
OK. At the next pizza grill, I'll have a bottle of ranch on hand. I'll try it again.
Adam Kuban at 3:09PM on 08/16/04
Guess I should've originally written "out of towners" or something less specific! :) I was poking fun at the stereotypical, intolerant New Yorker pizza purist "the NY way is the only way" attitude as much as anything.
Tony, what Cleveland pizza places would you recommend? I lived in Bowling Green for several years and once dated an Italian woman from Cleveland. It wasn't pizza, but one of my most fondly remembered meals was at La Dolce Vita on Mayfield Rd.
Slice joe at 3:43PM on 08/16/04
I have to disagree about Cleveland pizza. Very few decent places, outside of Mama Santas in Little Italy. Most places make the crust too thick, the cheese is meh, and the sauce is too pasty. I'll have to check out La Dolce Vita.
Slice Melissa at 11:06PM on 08/16/04
Sorry for shooting my jaw a bit early there. A bit jumpy I guess.:) Anyway, as far as pizza joints go, there is a place called Papa Joe's in a little town outside of Cleveland called Vermilion. Inside Cleveland itself,La Dolce Vita definitley is a damn fine slice. There is also a place down in Little Italy called Baricelli Inn. Now this place is fancy as far as the plates go but you can get a pizza rustica that makes you cry. Fresh tomatoes and basil drizzled in extra virgin olive oil on a crust made right thee and grilled as you stated in another article BUT with a slight difference. They use wood and the grill is a bell grill where the smoke imparts a nice flavor that is not too smokey so it tastes like you're eating an ashtray (but there's a place down the street, Angelao's where as you could eat an ashtray if you ordered one!). Oh man, there are so many nice little mom and pop joints through out Cleveland that make a nice pie. Now you are correct in the point that Ohio pie is not like NY pie. The end crust is a bit thicker than that of NY and often flavored. Not all of us are dippers but I gotta say to ya, when I make mine at home I dip because I always have so much lovely sauce I made left. Can't let it go to waste. No matter where you go, you will get good and bad pie. Hell, I went to Napoli two years ago and had a pie that I thought tasted like dried tomatoes with cheap oil drizzled on. Yeah, I know it was done in the way of their forefathers and theirs before but I wanted some good pizza damn it. All kidding aside I did have some that was out of the universe there. Hey Joe, did you ever have Myle's down in BG? (That was my alma mater. Folks you gotta try this stuff. I will not say it is the best pie at all. It is very interesting though. You get peperonis in stacks like poker chips and the cheese is so thick you have to bite it thre to four times to get through the stuff. the sauce, in my opinion, is great though. Just enough spice with the sweet tomato makes it truly nice. The place rocks at two in the morning after chasing tail in a small college town. Cheers folks and again my apologies for jumping the gun and talking up.
Slice Tony at 9:06AM on 08/17/04
Have to tell you about some dressing and pizza stuff. Used to manage John's Pizzeria (the three besides Bleecker), and it was very common amongst the staff to dip the pizza in the House Vinagrette. As a native New Yorker, I viewed this as repulsive, but upon trying it found myself very quickly converted. The vinegar meshes well with the tomato sauce, and the oil in the dressing livens up what can be a dry slice sometimes. Now that I own a place, I find myself sometimes dipping my pizza in certain salad dressings, not to hide the true flavor (quite good alone), but to mix it up a little, as I do eat it every day. My only suggestion is to keep an open mind, as this phenomenon is not strictly subject to non-native New Yorkers.
Slice ToddB at 4:05PM on 08/17/04
Whoah! As a former Lawrence resident (and first time visitor to Slice), the mere mention of Gumby's and Pizza Spittle really brings back the bad pizza memories.
What was the place on Mass. Street that had decent pies? I've been trying to remember the name of that place for a couple of weeks now.
Slice Chris at 2:48PM on 08/18/04
Chris: You're thinking of Papa Keno's.
Adam Kuban at 3:29PM on 08/18/04
I moved to the DC metro area for 18 years and have watched a couple of OK pizza places open up here. It's all relative, when the best pizza in town was at a local place called Jerry's Subs and Pizza. Pretty sad when "Bertucci's" becomes your favorite local place. I travel to White Plains couple times a year and drive back pies from Broadway Pizza (sicilian) and Abatino's (thin). My wife thinks I am crazy (yet she enjoys the pizza as much as I do). I will be in the city soon for the first time in many years and am trying to figure out the top two places to hit in the day that I will be there. After all the research on the Net, I really don't even know where to begin because everybody has their opinion. This (Slice) is a great website that I just stumbled across. Just writing this note is making me hungry for a quality pie - too bad I have drive a few hours or hop on a plane to get it.
Slice No "Real" Pizza In DC at 10:39PM on 08/26/04
Re: 'No Real Pizza In DC,' there is one place worth checking out -- A.V. Ristorante on New York Avenue, NW. It is thin crust, with lots of garlic and great taste. A.V. is an old fashioned Italian restaurant that has been a family operation for many years, and it's the best in the DC metro area. A distant second place would be a fairly new pizza restaurant called Palisades Pizza on McArthur Boulevard in NW DC.
Slice Jim Kennedy at 5:58PM on 08/30/04
Ok I don't know about the whole ranch thing but there's something else that has kind of a following here in Oregon- honey. Yep just a dab but on pepperoni or sausage pizza it's fantastic, that whole, sweet spicy thing. Don't knock it 'till you try it trust me!
oregonpinot at 9:33PM on 10/20/08
oh man, pizza shuttle is pretty awesome for cheap, late night pizza. and subs. there are a few in norman.
seikel at 10:46AM on 10/21/08
I don't know. I've never liked pizza by itself. Maybe the tomato sause is to spicy for me or maybe it's the taste. But I've never been able to eat pizza w/o dipping it in ranch. It doesn't matter the quality, it's the taste of the pizza I don't like. I found myself dipping Chicago style pizza from Chicago too. I only dip though, pouring it on top is gross.
All toppings actually. I dip ham & pineapple. Sometimes I drop pineapple pieces into the ranch and push them onto the slice even if they are covered in ranch. Green Pepper, cheese or pepporoni also.
I dip thin crust Mexican style pizza into sour cream though, those are spicy.
Maserati777 at 12:23AM on 10/26/08