Cool. Matthew's looks good, but I think what I'm going for here is a list of regional styles. So my criteria would be that at least a handful of pizzerias would have to be making a style. Is there a Baltimore-style pizza?
I grew up in Altoona, PA and there was yet another style I haven't seen outside of that region. It's served at the Altoona Hotel (actually a restaurant) and consists of a thick, Sicilian-style crust topped with tomato paste, a ring of green bell pepper, pepperoni and covered with American cheese. It's cut into squares and people swear by it. I'm sure I ate my fair share of it growing up, but I seem to have repressed the memory.
One more thing...this style, in one version or another, is served at about 4 other establishments in Altoona - all square, with thick crusts and a single slice of pepperoni on each square. Most others use the more traditional "pizza cheese" blends rather than American cheese.
Wow! That sounds interesting, punkin712. So Altoona has a style. Very interesting. Maybe I'll put Altoona Hotel on my list if/when I head out to Pittsburgh.
Wow, I'm truly honored that my post became an entry on Slice--this made my night!
Also, it showed this Jersey girl that there is a whole, wild wacky world of Midwestern pizza out there the Pizzaria Uno's she visited in Boston didn't do justice to--my favorite comment was from the Ohio Pizza blog, though: "nothing quite says, I’m from the middle of nowhere like making up your own style of pizza."
Also worth noting is the jumbo slice of Washington D.C. Similar to NY-style, but sold in huge, quarter-pie-sized slices, the jumbo slice is pretty good for eating, and much better for throwing.
I grew up in Oregon's Willamette Valley. The most common "style" of Pizza around here is, well, I don't know--I just call it Oregon-style. But it is mostly about the crust--it's fairly thin, with a wide, very puffy, hollow brim that's always painted to the edge with sauce. Toppings tend to be light to moderate, and the bottom of the crust is always crisp, very sturdy, never floppy at all. Toppings tend toward the traditional, though on occasion, some California-style toppings creep in. This style is common to a number of regional chains, but seldom seen elsewhere. I've never had it outside of Oregon...
I wonder if New England Greek style pizza is similar to the Greek style pizza found in Queens, New York (I'm thinking specifically of the Singas chain).
I'm glad you included some Detroit-style pizza! If anyone here has ever been to Buddy's (a small chain of pizzerias in the Detroit metro area), their pies are the perfect example of this style.
Antrobin: Is that like what Pietro's or Abby's serves? I lived in Salem for a couple years and am (somewhat) familiar. At the time, I didn't really pay as much studied attention to the pizza I was eating there.
Jazspin: The Wikipedia entry on Detroit style mentions Buddy's—and also Cloverleaf Pizza as the originator of the genre. How do the two compare?
In SE Pennsylvania one of the more common styles in the Greek style pizza.
I'm more a thin crust Italian style fan myself but around these parts folks for the most part thinf the Greek style in the way pizza is supposed to be made.
Commonly the name of the establishment will give a clue as to the style. Boston, Royal, or after the namer of a Greek God like Appollo, Diana, etc.
These are done in a pan with a side about a 1/2 inch in height and the sauce tends to be more acidic as opposed to sweet. The cheese blend is different too but I couldn't tell you what the make up difference is.
I've even see (The horror!!!) toppings underneath the cheese.
I've never seen another pizza quite like Matthew's, but there's another Maryland-style pie best exemplified by the pizza at Ledo's: rectangular; thin, buttery crust; sweet sauce; and smoked cheese of some kind, usually provolone. (It sounds somewhat similar to the description of Old Forge, which I've never had, and that would certainly make some geographical sense.)
In addition to the original Ledo in College Park and the local franchises of same, I've had very similar pizza at a number of bars around the area, although the only specific one coming to mind right now is the Stained Glass Pub in Olney.
And, I wasn't aware there was a "Detroit Style" pizza either until I moved out of Michigan and couldn't believe there was not a single place you could get a "deep dish" like you could get at pretty much any pizzeria or party store (convenience store) around town. I especially miss Buscemi's as a blast from High School.
Adam: Matthew's is pretty much the only independent pizza place in Baltimore City proper, so we have to take what we can get. Apparently there used to be more places that sold that style but urban blight and all that pretty much wiped them out.
I've had St. Louis-style many times, and the cheese they use (Provel) is a monstrosity, much like processed American cheese. In fact, it can't be labeled as simply "cheese" since it does not meet the FDA's moisture content requirements. Given that, and the matzoh-like crust, I think it just barely qualifies as "pizza."
Yes, the jumbo slice of DC is mainly known for it's size. There are many competing places offering this style. The link to the article below tells about the development of the jumbo slice, the competing claims of who has the "First Oldest Original Jumbo Slice," a laboratory-based nutritional analysis, and the fact that people only eat it when they are drunk. jumbo slice lore of DC
I don't have anything against Altoona, but I wanted to point something out. If you happen to be in Pittsburgh, Altoona is still pretty far away.
If you are in Pittsburgh, the pizza to try is:
1. Fiori's
2. Aiello's
Fiori's and Aiello's both have what I would call Pittsburgh style pizza: Sweeter sauce, and crust that is crunchy on the edges, and with more texture and flavor than the typical New York style pizza. Excellent, excellent, excellent. Those two shops do it the best.
foobar: Making every attempt to not give a true pizza fan a typical verbal thrashing on a message board, I can only simply say that i completely disagree with your statement about St. Louis style pizza. Provel cheese is a gift to the cheese world and to pizza lovers. Every time I am in St. Louis, i buy a 5lb. block of the stuff to bring back to the tastelest pizza world of Texas. Everyone that has tried the cheese that i brought back has asked how they can buy some.. There are several websites that offer it online and will ship it to you. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but.....
Right on, New England Greek Style! My husband grew up north of Boston, and he has a childhood photo of the same small, orangey, grease-laden pie you can still get today at such a place. Distinguishing points:
* Thin crust with a firm, but not crackerlike, bottom, which is often oily enough to saturate the pizza box
* Tomato sauce heavily spiced with oregano
* Thin layer of cheese, sometimes a blend of mozz and cheddar
* Cooked long enough for the cheese to become molten, slippery, and sometimes separate, coating the entire top of the pie with orange oil
And one side note, you can also tell you're in a Greek pizza place by the all-Greek decor, gyro offerings, and a Greek salad that's 85% feta cheese. Oppa! :)
mikes - Good point about the sweetness of the sauce. If I recall correctly, the local sauce (DelGrosso's) in Altoona is a bit sweeter than the nationally bottled brands. Do you think that's a PA thing or just to that region?
Adam - Altoona is about 100 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, but a worthwhile side trip if you can swing it. OT, but I also suggest stocking up on Benzel's pretzels at their outlet store and maybe a case or two of Mallo Cups from Boyer Candy.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Pietro's (I don't even think there are any Pietro's left, actually), Abby's, Papa's (not Papa John's--Papa's, regional chain with about 7 locations), Tracktown, and several other Eugene/Salem area joints all serve pizza that is more or less the same. As I mentioned before, it's really a crust issue, though most of the chains mentioned keep the toppings pretty standard. Most of the "Oregon" pizza I mention also tends to be a bit heavy on the sauce.
I grew up in Buffalo, and we had chain of pizza places called Bocces that supplied most of the locals with their pizza; and somehow, it somehow always comes up when I run into other former Buffalonians... The crust was maybe on the thicker side, kind of chewy, and usually a little more doughy (read: slightly undercooked). The sauce was simply tomato paste; and until I moved to NYC I thought that's what I thought everyone put on their pizzas.
Well I'm glad to see someone from Pittsburgh with some sense- suggesting Aiellos rather than the much propagandized Mineos (ugh!). Aiellos does indeed have some tasty pizza, though the new place in the same neighborhood (Squirrel Hill) by the name of Luccis gives Aiellos a run for their money, at least to my mouth when I'm craving a non-margharita pizza. Also worth mentioning is Paparazzi's on the South Side. Often seen selling slices on the corner outside their establishment on bar-hopping nights, this small local bar and eatery makes a surprisingly good 'Pittsburgh style' pizza as Mikes describes a few comments above.
Still and all, nothing quite compares (for me) to Hot Mama's in Seattle. By far my favorite pizza (the Chef Special in particular), it was the bane of my existence back in my Vegan days (their sauce contains some cheese it seems), but oh man- now that the animal products are back in my diet those slices are the stuff that dreams are made of! If only pizza mail-ordered well...
I grew up in SE CT and grew up on "New England Greek," though I never heard it called that. I also worked a few, Botchis Pizza, Niantic Pizza and Flanders Pizza in East Lyme, CT. This type of Greek is not to be confused with "Greek" pizzas with olives, feta and other Greek ingredients. The dough is pressed out into olive-oiled pans with a small rim. The dough is pressed flat and then sauced. The pans are left out to rise, but only a little. We would then cheese them and toss them in the cooler. That would stop the rising. You would then draw on those throughout the day. If you ran out - no more pizza! The base cheese was a mixture of provolone and moz. If you wanted a "Mozzarella" pizza, the pizzaman would sprinkle another layer of moz over the base and toss the pan in the oven. Other ingredients went on top of the cheese. When it was done the pizza was scooped out of the pan, dropped onto a flat cardboard round and sliced, always with a long flat curved blade that pressed into the pizza and sliced as the blade rocked on it's curved edge. I never saw roller cutters and I'm not sure they would work as well on the slightly thicker, crisper pies.
The places I worked in and ate at did not, as I recall, have an acidic taste. But there may be variations.
Best things about this style: The crust gets very firm and crunchy due to the olive oil in the pan. It's a little thicker than NY style, but because it's risen it seems a little lighter. That crisper crust would support the extra cheesy "Mozzarella" pizza, and rarely got soggy.
I really miss that style and I wish there were a place in NYC that made it this way.
Bocces is pretty lousy pizza, but Buffalo, and in fact Western and Upstate NY, do have a regional style, with a crust about halfway between NY style flat crust and Chicago deep dish and copious amounts of mozz, cooked at a lower temp than thin crust, which may account for the undercooked dough at Bocces--the temptation is to take the pizza out too soon. Also, here in Lockport NY, there are places that serve sweet sauce, others that serve "traditional," and still others that offer sweet, semi-sweet, and traditional. That might be the case elsewhere in WNY but I haven't checked.
I haven't seen anyone else comment, so I'll offer my two cents, being from Massapequa, LI, where Grandma Pizza was king (also, we called it Gramma Pizza).
Grandma pizza actually differs from Sicilian in a few ways (although that's probably the easiest way to describe it). The crust is somehow a little sweeter, maybe for being so thin (or maybe it's actually different -- my Grandma used to use a sweeter dough for her pizza). Also, there's less cheese, used in a thinner capacity -- not heaps of ooey-gooey cheese, more like the way fresh mozzarella is used -- and garlic features much more prominently than in a regular slice of Sicilian.
Oh, god, now I want a slice so badly I can actually taste it!
Greek style pizza also exists in the hudson valley (mainly at the four brothers chain) with many of the characteristics cited above: baked in a pan, thicker crust that is a bit oily and puffy, not too much cheese, cheese that seems to be some kind of a blend, not straight mozz.
Providence, R.I. is home to one very specific type of thin-crust Sicilian, and although I have never seen it anywhere else I can't figure out why. This style is my favorite thin-crust Sicilian.
The pizzas, which are large and rectangular, have no cheese and no toppings; Instead of toppings the pizza has a thick layer of well seasoned sauce that usually contains, among other things, a good amount of chopped garlic and pine nuts. After the pizza is baked it is cut into long rectangular slices and then refrigerated until cool.
This type of pizza is served in different bakeries all over the city, and is always served the same way: The pizza is room temperature to cold and is almost exclusively sold by the slice. If you're in the area I highly recommend checking it out. You can get it in almost any bakery, but if you do go, got to any Crugnale's. To get a great, hot thin-crust Sicilian in Providence go to Casserta's on Federal Hill.
ohio pizza, as far as i'm concerned, has a thicker crust and a sweeter sauce than average pizza sauce. on the food network great pizza cookoff or whatever, that's what they said cleveland pizza was, and i've always believed it. i can barely tolerate pizza anywhere else. ;-)
One style you are missing is the Mountain style, or High Altitude pizza found in Colorado, Idaho, and Montana. Beaux Jo's (http://www.beaujos.com/menu.cfm) provides a great example of this kind of pizza. The thick crust is almost always served with mountain clover honey.
Regarding New England Greek Pizza ... .. The crust is not really thin... but it is not as thick as sicilian... I heard that the crust is puffier than Neopolitan pizza because there is egg added to the dough... this seems to make sense to me.
Note that almost all mom-and-pop pizza shops in the Boston area serve this type of pizza. It is not uncommon to see two or three pizza places all walking distance from each other serving this same style. As someone who grew up in New York, I would rather eat a cheesey roll with tomato sauce than eat this pizza. I have found it hard to comprehend why there is no Neopolitan pizza up here... Is it that it is too hard to install the oven? Or is it that all pizza makers get their ingredients from the same source? Or is it that when I see 2 greek pizza shops next door to each other... the second shop was opened by a disgruntled employee that learned how to make pizza then opened a store next door...
Also... don't get me started on the lack of Diner's in the Boston area....
Connecticut has more than one style of pizza, btw. While the New Haven branch is great, my heart belongs to the medium crust, cooked in a greased pan, cut in squares pizza of my Hartford youth. The sauce is similar to the "Greek New England" style described by serafina, but with a thicker crust (not Sicilian thick, tho). Always commercial mozzarella, usually grated romano on top as well, and my favorite, fresh sausage chunks, put on raw, cooked as the pizza cooks, spreading the pork fat love over the whole pizza, none of those lazy slices of pre-cooked links! Have seen cheese put on top of other ingredients, but it's not common. Also, no selling of separate slices (the horror!). My family fights over which is better, the "corners" which have the maximum crust to innard ratio, or the inside slices, which have no edge crust at all. mmmm...
Unfortunately in most of the country "chain style" pizza prevails. The upstate New York style mentioned above seems similar to a local Marlyand/D.C./VA based chain called Ledo's. As my login name implies, I grew up on and remain partial to Trenton Tomato Pies (used to go to Hudson Street at least one a week with my dad, who had been going there almost weekly since he was in high school in the early '50s).
The originators of the Ohio Valley style make sort of a deconstructed pizza - they bake the bread - not thin New York Style, but certainly not Sicilian either - and then add cold tomato sauce and shredded provolone. Yes, provolone, not mozz or cheddar.
The heat from the bread then warms up the sauce and cheese.
As mentioned, the sauce is really just stewed tomatoes with minimal spices.
I have to ask for the inclusion of "sheet pizza", a staple in Binghamton NY and the surrounding area. Sheet pizza is cooked on rectangular cookie sheets. The sauce tends to be a little sweeter and cheese is a mozzarella/cheddar mix.
It is very common to have "white" pizza in sheet form. White with broccoli is a classic variation.
The classic topping for sheet pizza is another local delicacy, the spiedie (small chunks of highly marinaded meat - chicken & pork being most common).
I'm from New Haven and have eaten pizzas throughout Connecticut, NYC and near the birthplace of Domino's (:() where, in fact, we shared plenty of puffy square pies, crusts sprinkled w sesame seeds, in places that were originally run by Greek immigrants. I've had similar pies in Connecticut where I can't say I've discerned a clear difference between Giovanni's Pizzeria and Thanos.
"Sicilian" strikes me as a misnomer. You say it's not very popular in New York and I see others refer to the type around the country. Do you know anything about its origins? Regional spread? If there's a genuine correlation between immigrants of Sicilian birth and the pie?
* * *
While this taxonomy certainly helps to distinguish Ray's slices from pizzas in New Haven and Chicago, I suspect there are quite a few other factors at play for some of the types identified here that have nothing to do with regionalism per se.
I'm willing to acknowledge that a local tradition can be established quickly and develop idiosyncratic features even when sparked by a number of outside forces, but it's not like we're talking about long developments that endure in a way that's comparable to the pizza that emerged in Naples well before tourism inspired its dissemination throughout Italy. (In neighboring Puglia, "pizza rustica" refers to a double-crusted savory torte, usually packed with sautéed greens. There's also, of course, a relationship between focaccia and the doughy or deep-dish pizzas that Americans ate long before they heard the f-word.)
Disclaimer: I haven't read much of anything on pizza in the U.S., so I'd find useful any dates, names, facts, etc.
RE: New England Greek Pizza mom-and-pop shops in the Boston area.
As with any type of food, there is a lot of variation in quality (and style)
in the independent shops. One feature of a few Greek owned pizza
shops is that they felt that the best olive was a Greek olive - when
you ordered a pizza with olives, they would reach over into the salad
making station, grab a big handful of Greek olives, pit them and
put them on the pizza. Places that did this tended to have the
best pizza because they didn't skimp in the quality of the ingredients.
[One place also considered "Peppers and Onions" to be one item
but would still give you a full layer of each!
We could order "Peppers and Onions and Black Olives"
as a two item pizza. Very helpful to the budget in my student days.]
My favorite restaurants are ones where the owner is watching the
plates and not just the register. These places tend to build a
loyal following.
RE: St. Louis Style Pizza
I'm a NY'er married to someone from St. Louis, and I had heard so much about St. Louis style pizza and Imo's, so I was really excited to try it. The first time I had it, it was absolutely horrible. I would not stop ribbing everyone I met about the horrid quality of their pizza. However, for sake of argument, I tried Imo's again two nighst later, and it was really good. The provell has a slightly tangy, almost peppery taste to it, and I really enjoyed. I think a huge taste difference arises on when, and who happens to make your pie at Imo's. Also, Wikipedia has an amazing article about Provell. Difara it ain't, but St. Louis pizza can be pretty great.
Regarding St. Louis style, I have to agree with foobar and ajthronton. Provel is an abomination; to call it cheese is indeed a misnomer. I liken it in flavor and quality to Velveeta, except when provel cools, it coagulates and takes on a tacky, gelatinous texture that sticks in a lump to the roof of the mouth. When ordering a pizza in a new neighborhood restaurant last week, I triple-checked with the waitress that it did not have any provel, to which she responded, "you're not from around here, are you?"
St. Louis style pizza is disgusting to anyone who didn't grow up on it and the best thing ever to those that did. I live in St. Louis and thank god that not every place in town is in love with provel "cheese" I agree with above on the texture-very plastic like. gross.
St. Louisians love it though, so I try to withhold my comments to friends, however, I can't imagine being so infatuated with such a fake "food" like provel cheese. Many people here do not even realize that it isn't cheese.
Mozzarella and other italian cheeses win for me.
And for one other type of pizza from when I lived in chicago that no one ever talks about that I loved. Double Decker. Two thin Chicago pizzas stacked on top of each other and baked. The crispy layer in the middle was fantastic!
i cant find any sort of "baltimore" pizza style per se. but matthew's is its own unique creature. the crust is real buttery almost deep dish and always tons of cheese. i've taken a few pizza wolves there and they all mention its like no other pizza they've had before. the closest i've ever come across a pizza like matthew's was at zachary's in oakland california.
I think you do a serious disservice to St. Louis style pizza by leaving out Cecil Whittakers. Their St. Louis style pizza does not use provel but a 5 cheese blend. While I like imo's well enough, Cecil Whittakers' pizza is the far better St. Louis style pizza. It is also important to note that, in my opinion, St. Louis style pizza is meant to be injoyed with side dishes, especially toasted ravioli.
There is an excellent pizza in northern Minnesota and northern Wisconsin, Sammy's Pizza, founded in 1954 in Hibbing, Minnesota by Sammy Perella. I've never found another one like it. It has a very thin, cracker-like crust made, as far as I can tell, with unleavened dough, like the St. Louis style you refer to. It is topped with an interestingly subtle orange-colored tomato sauce and thin mozzarella slices. I remember reading a newspaper article in the 1960s in Duluth, saying that Sammy had traveled to New York or Chicago (can't remember which) and bought the recipe from Italians there for $300. Sammy's Pizza now has several restaurants, most or all of them run by family members, in several Minnesota cities.
I haven't been yet, but my boyfriend raves about Senape's Pitza in Hazelton, PA. It is apparently another type of regional Pennsylvania pizza. There is at least one other place that sells a similar style. There are pics and more info on this Roadfood forum. Might be worth checking out if you do a pizza trip to Pennsylvania, I've been promised one this spring and am looking forward to it!
Around Philadelphia, there is Italian pizza and Greek pizza.
They're readily identifiable by the name of the business -- Italian is always an Italian place or family name, and Greek is named for the locale or some other quality. Marone's and Bella Italia are two superb versions of Italian pizza. Ardmore Style Pizza, Real Pizza, and Royal Pizza are all Greek.
Italian pizza comes in varying sizes with a thinnish, flexible, chewy hand-tossed crust. (Mmm, with bubbles.) Because of the flexible crust, it can be hard to load it with a lot of ingredients. But the sauce, the melted cheese, the pepperoni and mushrooms. . . .The closest I've found in the San Francisco Bay Area is Pizza My Heart, which I adore beyond measure. Ideally, it's more Neapolitan and less crisp than a NY-style pizza.
Then there's Sicilian pizza, which is square and bready.
Greek pizza comes in one size -- 12 inches -- and has a thick, chewy crust, lots of very salty cheese, and lots of oregano. And I would drop everything to find a decent Greek-style pizza out here.
In upstate PA, there is also Old Forge style pizza. With cheddar! I miss that, too.
Adam - The story I heard many years ago is that the Detroit style started at an eastside (Italian) bar called the Cloverleaf by some enterprising bar chef. The pizza was a hit and the originator was hired away from the Cloverleaf (circa 1960's?) and over to Buddy's then Sheild's or vice-versa. The original Buddy's & Sheilds were close to each other in the city. I used to stop at the original Buddys after softball - met Leon Spinks one evening. The style is readily available at both of these small local chains and is quite good. Buscemi's is similar on the eastside. It is unique and very different from Papa Del's that I started on. Good eats.
First, this is an excellent discussion. I grew up in New Haven county and was at first shocked to move to Massachusetts and be unable to get what I had known as pizza all my life. It got worse when I moved to NH and then visited Maine where clerks asked me questions like "what type of crust would you like?" - Because they had things like whole wheat... which is definitely not good eats in my opinion. I've eaten the real Chicago stuff and it's great, but arguably isn't pizza. One note is that a lot of the pizza places in New Haven refer to their stuff as Apizza, (pronounced "A-beets") in signs and in conversation. I think I'm going to take the 75 mile drive back to Pepi's... thanks for this post!
If your in Pittsburgh PA then you have to stop by Vincents Pizza. Thick crust, a lot of toppings, never round though they do try and enough grease for a year. They no longer feature the Vinnie secret ingredient, the end of his cigarette, but it is still good.
New England bakery pizza. Pizza with sauce and no cheese, thick bready crust, served cold. I had this in San Francisco once, too, where they called it "focacia pizza". Served in grocery stores, bakeries, and even some convenience stores.
The Greek pizzas of New England are what I would call "House of Pizza" pizzas, because most "HOP"s are run by Greek families. I would add that the crust is usually undersalted, and airy if not downright spongy right below the topping. I've never encountered a Greek HOP pizza that had cheddar on it, thought. In my 33 years of eating pizza around N.E., it's always been straight mozzarella, if not a mozz/romano blend.
i'm surprised that i didn't see apizza from Bar in the New Haven style pizza section.... their pizza is just plain awsome, it's made up until 2 A.M. on the weekends, and i think that it falls more in line with traditional new haven apizza than Modern. I think Modern is delicious pizza, but Bar's pizza falls more in line with the New Haven style than Modern.
the farther away from Wooster St. you go, the pizza gets rounder, less greasy, thicker crusted, and gets served on more run of the mill platters, until you end up in the suburbs with just crummy pizza.
I think the best part of real new haven pizza is the fact that a lot of these places don't play games. Pepe's and Sally's for instance, serve pizza. and that's it. every pie's a large, they don't make calzones or antipasto, you're there to eat the pizza, and if you're not, you can leave.
plus there's always a line, and you meet some cool people waiting in line.
Old Forge Pizza--I grew up eating and loving the stuff. My favorite (long gone) was Vince the Prince in Scranton. Here are more specifics: it's always a rectangular pizza and it has a fried consistency. It's always served on a rectangular cafeteria-style tray on the kind of waxed paper you grab donuts with. The cheese is specifically Cooper cheddar cheese if it's the real stuff. Purists prefer no more than one topping and usually have none. Best places to go: the bars along the main street in Old Forge but it's available through the whole Wyoming Valley (stay away from the mall places!).
There is also "Brier Hill" style pizza which is basically sauce, bell peppers, and a generous amount of romano cheese. You can read more about it on the wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brier_Hill
Hey, Adam. What a fine, comprehensive and scholarly review.
Might I suggest you consider yet another style, one that isn't necessarily "regional," yet increasingly popular. I'll call it nouveau organic/locavoric.
In my experience, Jules' Thin Crust, in Doylestown, PA ( with a recently added outlet in Newtown, PA...refer to my Slice review). LA area pizzavores might choose to add Wolfgan Puck and his disciples to the list of producers of NO/L pizzas. These pizzas are thin crust pies, using homemade sauce and toppings that are seasonal, local and often organic (thus, the locavore appellation). I choose locavore, the 2007 Oxford Dictionary word-of-the-year (http://www.locavores.com), to describe this style, as the pies often use locally-grown toppings.
I just wanted to add to the "california style" (it's a big state) by giving props to the cheese board in Berkeley. They feature only one kind of pie a day, with a thin sourdough crust, no tomato sauce, and some combination of cheeses, veggies(not overdone and sometimes including potato or arugula) and olive oil.
As a resident who lives near Old Forge, and having sampled many different styles of pizza around the country, I would have to say that Old Forge knows no competition. That being said, Old forge pizza is far more individually stylistic than any pizza I have ever had. I am not simply in the mood for Pizza. . . I find myself in the mood for Revello's Pizza, or Arcaro & Genell's Pizza. . . Each resteraunt is distinctly different in it's exact ingrediants. The style is idenitifed by the way it is shapped and cooked.
There is controversy over the cheese. While some may argue that pizza requires mazzarella cheese, that is certainly not the case. Old Forge Pizza prizes itself on it's unique taste. There are only a few resteraunts that can claim to be original Old Forge Pizza and any bad experiences with the style are sure to be from an imitator.
Don't believe me? Stop by and order a tray of pizza. Old Forge is only a few minutes away from Scranton and WIlkes-Barre. Just don't call it a pie.
As a lifelong Ohio Valley resident, I'd like to commend the author for recognizing the local pizza as a unique "style". tofoomeister writes above that the pizza is sauced cold, which is not correct. I know of none of the ten or so DiCarlo's that do this. DiCarlo's is the most widely known purveyor of the "square" pie which is typically baked in a square pan yielding 16 slices or in a rectangular yielding 28. There are several in my town (Wheeling WV) and all bake the crust with a sauce on that most closely resembles a mild marinara. The pizza is spread with a modest amount of provolone that is either shredded or crumbled depending on the exact pizzeria that preps it and it is sliced and sold by the slice. Extra cheese and a few slices of pepperoni are added when the slices are boxed for the customer. The cheese is thus cool on a hot slice if it is immediately eaten in the parking lot (which it often is since most of the places that sell this style have no eat in facility). There are also several other notable and good shops that sell the squares besides the aforementioned DiCarlo's. These are Bruno's in Elm Grove section of Wheeling; Zontini's in Martins Ferry Ohio; Home Pizza in St. Clairsville, Ohio; and Osso's in Washington, PA. There are several north of Wheeling area in the Steubenville, OH / Weirton, WV area also but the names don't readily come to mind other than DiCarlo's which is a loosely affiliated little chain of independent shops.
Almost all such places are difficult to find because these are small and locally owned operations adding to their quirky charm. All locals will know where they are so just ask if you are in the UPPER Ohio Valley where the Northern Panhandle of West Virginia lies jammed like a spike between Ohio and Pennsylvania. This is the only region that I am aware of that has this style of pizza.
One final note: The Ohio Valley style is not for everyone. People either love it or hate it, deriding it as no more than ketchup on cardboard with a whisper of mystery cheese. Just remember the ancient Roman saying, "Where tastes are concerned, there can be no argument."
Adam & everyone -- a couple of comments regarding Detroit pizza. I'm a native of the Detroit area and still reside in a suburb of Detroit. Just wanted to shed some light on our pizza. Det0321 has it just a little mixed up. The first square deep dish in southeastern Michigan was indeed Buddy's on 6 Mile & Conant, opened in the 40's. Some of the original pizza cooks that worked for them during their first 20 years eventually struck out on their own, creating most notably Loui's Pizza, Shields & the original Cloverleaf Bar & Restaurant, located on Gratiot Avenue in Eastpointe (formerly called East Detroit, the city where I grew up). Now the Cloverleaf Pizza link that was provided above, in one of the other comments is no longer related to the original Cloverleaf Bar on Gratiot; the two locations on that particular weblink are basically carry-out places and carry both Cloverleaf square pizza and round pizza. The original Cloverleaf on Gratiot opened in the latter 50's or early 60's and only serves square pizza.......no rounds; the original is still the only location. Buddy's now has 20-30 locations, but most are carryout only; I believe there are only a few sit-down Buddy's Pizza restaurants (2-3 in southeastern Michigan area). Shield's Pizza has also developed into a chain, but I'm not sure how many there are total -- maybe 4 to 5??? But to wind things up, my personal favorite is Loui's Pizza in Madison Heights, only one location and only serving square. And the reason that I like it best is that their crust isn't as thick as the rest; it's created more like a Chicago-type thinner crust, formed into a 2" deep pan. It's not as doughy as Buddy's or Shields. Another plus with Loui's is the cheese blend that they use and the fact that they cube their cheese (about 1/2" diameter), instead of shredding. It really adds to the ooziness factor! So if you ever find yourself in our neck of the woods, please try Loui's, the original Cloverleaf, Buddy's and Shields.......in that order! Happy tasting.
It's hard to find a good neapolitan pizza shop in the Boston area. The best I've found is Sweet Tomatoes in Newton Center. I think there's a few other shops around.
Besides that, my standard of excellence is Sal and Carmines on Broadway and 105th. That is a perfect NY slice right there.
Being from New Haven (which is near new york as well) and living around the corner from both Pepe's and Sally's, I've had all the major types of pizzas (NY, NH, Greek, Cicilian) and let me assure you that nothing is like new haven style pizza. But, it is not exactly like how it was described in the article. New Haven pizza is not thicker than New york style, it is THINNER! Sally's is extra thin and pepe's is inbetween NY style and Sally's. About all the other styles well, let me put it this way, if it ain't cooked in a coal fired brick oven...IT AIN'T PIZZA! If you disagree with that statement, then you dont' know pizza!
Utica-style maybe a variation (Utica NY) this is more a variation than its own style maybe but all the toppings are under the cheese. I spent a couple summers in central New York and I have never seen it anywhere else.
Almost all of the people I know in Chicago think of stuffed pizza when you say "Chicago Style." In my experience, it's only people outside of the area that think of deep dish - thanks mostly to chains like pizzeria uno. Stuffed pizza is a whole nother thing.
i grew up in mt lebanon,out side of pittsburgh and i remember a place on washington rd that had a thin crust with seasonings on the bottom of the crust. oil would be dripping off your elbow in under a min.
I would like to add my own contribution to this great article. I hail from the small town of Hazleton PA, about an hour away from Old Forge, and about 2 hours from NYC. Hazleton has a long history of immigrants settling in Hazleton and we have a style of pizza that is one of my favorite foods hands down. Its called Senape's Pitza. yea... pitza, i don't know how spelling came to be so literal, but its a delicious food without a doubt. Its similar to sicilian pizza, rectangular in shape, but served at room temperature, after being cooked of course. I am no food connoisseur but i am only familiar with two different brands of "deli style pizza", Senape's and Longo's both from Hazleton, and i have never seen it sold anywhere outside a 20 mile radius of Hazleton. I had a teacher in high school who had a relative who was the coach for the Los Angeles Angels, and he was from Hazleton. When this guy would return to Los Angeles he would bring boxes and boxes of Senape's pizza back with him in which his players would devour, or so i am told. So if you are ever in the north east PA region, check out a local grocery store for Senape's Pitza :)
Old Forge style is awesome. We used to get it at a joint in Plains Township. I've also had it in Old Forge itself. The potato pies were awesome. Unfortunately, they use the peanut oil, which my oldest son is allergic to, so no more.
I love Chicago style and this article makes me want to travel. The Utica style sounds interesting.
Been to Altoona about ten times and don't recall the Altoona Hotel. Altoona is the only place where I've heard slices called "cuts." It's about a 2 1/2 train ride from Pittsburgh.
Tomato pies (Trenton) are popular all the way up the Delaware River to the Lehigh Valley area.
Throughout Long Island, New York, pizza's been evolving - one could argue devolving.
Pizza joints are topping regular slices with all sorts of Italian American entrees - yes, a pie is topped with literally an full size entree worth of food. From baked ziti to eggplant parmesean. Last time I was back on LI visiting family, there was chicken marsala pizza, of all things.
I am from Old Forge as well. People from outside the area either love it or hate it. We just had it for dinner tonight from a newer place called Mancuso's. I agree with the previous poster about having a craving for a specific place's pizza. Some have onions in the crust, some use a blend of cheese that sticks to the roof of your mouth more. Some use Cheddar and some use American cheese primarily, but most use a blend of different cheeses. Several places in towns hours away claim to have Old Forge style pizza, but it usually is a poor imitation. Old Forge is also known as the Pizza Capitol of the World not because its pizza is any better than anywhere else but per capita, it has more pizza places than any other place and they are all packed on a Friday night.
CHICAGO STUFFED PIZZA DOES NOT HAVE A LAYER OF CRUST ON TOP. it is not 'all dough' like many people i have met from NY tend to believe.
its like a pie, sauce on top. many cant understand this simple concept.
if you never had anything from here then i highly recommend ordering it online.. giordanos.com has it great for mailorder.
be careful after eating this though..youll hate all other pizza forever.
Regarding Chicago stuffed pizza, there are two crusts, between the bottom and top crusts are the fillings, sauce and cheese are on the top. Crusts are not thin or thick.
I am a native Chicagoan, grew up on excellent thin crust but like stuffed, less bread than deep dish. I received a shipment of Lou Malnatti's thick crust pizza from my sister (thank you), share it with friends in Houston, they now understand why I am not a fan of pizza in Houston.
I am surprised not to see flame war regarding pepperoni versus sausage. Only non natives eat pepperoni pizza in Chicago - Italian sausage rules. Had "white pizza" in central PA (pretty good), had incredible sheet pizza in Hartford - toppings were simple, olive oil, garlic, clams and rosemary, it was amazing.
Houston's pizza is a bit sad - Tex-Mex, Cajun, and Texas BBQ rules here. As I mentioned, you can order pizza from Chicago (and elsewhere) and have it shipped.
Hi. Wikipedia has its entry for New Haven style pizza (under "Apizza") flagged to be deleted due to lack of citations. Just thought this might be a handy place to tell someone about it. Who might know how to do something, that is.
Alright, I'm fully aware that I'm going to get my a*** kicked for saying this, but I just have to. Australia's whole fast food pizza industry is based upon the Hawaiian Pizza. Cheese, Ham and lovely lovely Pineapple on a thick doughy crust. Hawaii is in the States. America has to have invented Hawaiian Pizza's, right? :)
I must comment on the Rhode Island phenomenon known as "Pizza Strips." You can get a "party tray" or individual strips (The party tray is cut into cubes but if you get strips it is usually the size of one by three cubes) of cold/room temperature "pizza" that is on a thick crust, depending on the source it may be dry (Depetrillo's) or VERY oily, (Calvitto's). There is a thick layer of sauce on the crust but NO CHEESE, though a few places sprinkle parmesan on top.
These are sold at Italian Bakeries and supermarkets, not pizza joints. A party tray is a fixture at every Christening, Shower, Birthday, Anniversary.....whatever.
I am a native of Northeast Pennsylvania, but have lived in Washington DC, Philadelphia, and now southern California. I am a total pizza hound and can never really decide what is the best. It's like asking what's the best kind of steak. If I'm in the Midwest, there's nothing like deep-dish and Old Style. A very nice pinot grigio goes real well with California style.
As a native, I have to give a plug to Old Forge. Old Forge is always square, and is always a mid-high Sicilian crust. Peanut oil is a must. A very hot oven is a must - remember, this was hard coal country back in the day, and coal fire stoves could get up to 800 degrees Farenheit. The cheeses are a mystery - I have heard American, Cooper Sharp, White Cheddar, Mozzarella, and even some distant cousin of Monterey Jack used.
There is also "White" Old Forge pizza. This is nothing like Pizza Bianco or a round pie, but more like a grilled cheese sandwich. The pan is oiled, of course, then the dough (or shell) put down, then the cheeses, and then a second layer of dough. Then oil is put on the second layer of dough, and salt, pepper, oregano, and rosemary are sprinkled on top. There is nothing like it anywhere else in the US - and I've looked!
Good call on the "NE-Greek Style" pizza, as this seems to be its own distinct regional style of pie. Growing up near Boston, I believe this is by far the most common type of independently-made pizza available (disregarding the popular Papa Gino's chain - but that's another story). Indeed, my wife (born and raised in Detroit) commented upon moving here that "every town has its own 'House of Pizza'". I imagine that this is due to the lack of Italian surnames among the owners; besides, each town can only have one 'HoP', right?
I must also comment on the "Sicilian Bakery-Style Pizza", as this is a completely different style than the norm. I'll use as my example the great "Tripoli's Bakery" in Lawrence, Mass. [Lawrence's nickname is "The Immigrant City", as many, many of its former and current inhabitants came here to work in the mills. This resulted in a highly diverse population, though the majority were Irish, then Italian/Sicilian. So there once were many, many pizza shops, including Greek and Lebanese varieties, and overall quality varied greatly]
Tripoli's is a full-service bakery, but also has a separate counter for pizza and meat pies only, and makes what I'm told is authentic Sicilian pizza: square, thin crust, lightly seasoned tomato sauce, very little cheese (mozzarella only), very crisp and made in very large sheets. Often, whole sheets are par-cooked in advance, then reheated, slice by slice, as ordered. Slices can also be ordered with pepperoni or a single thin slice of imported provolone. Importantly, the crust does not rise when cooked, so it stays crispy and is never oily or grease-laden.
This was nearly the only pizza we had growing up, partly because Tripoli's pizza could be bought frozen (uncooked) in bags, then conveniently baked in the toaster oven (or grilled), as two slices fit perfectly. [This is not your usual frozen pizza!]
The pizza is so distinctive, that the bakery also operates a pizza stand at Salisbury Beach, MA, which is constantly busy and open year-round (yes, even in the winter). The funny thing is that another beach stand, Christy's, serves suspiciously-similar pizza only two doors down from the Tripoli's stand, yet is also successful. Around there, the debate of "Christy's vs. Tripoli's" pizza is second perhaps only to the "chicken vs. egg". (They're both pretty darn good.)
I would love to hear if anyone knows any further details about the venerable Tripoli's/Christy's history or other details about Lawrence.
It basically comes down to this: if you haven't had pizza in Italy, and specifically in Naples, then you can't be said to have eaten pizza at all. There are some good American versions, and some creative variations, as we can see from the list, but fundamentally it's a Neapolitan creation. You have to start there before making blanket judgements about Chicago pizza or New York pizza.
Miami has various "Cuban pizza" chains such as Ray's (no relation to the NYC chain" and Montes de Oca. Only had it once....very chewy, with an extremely sweet sauce that recalls, ugh, Domino's. You can get it topped with plantains, potatoes, etc. Not my thing, but my dad's been known to order it down there.
"California pizzas" were first made at the Cafe at Chez Panisse when it opened in 1980. The innovation was quickly picked up by other local restaurants, most notably Prego in San Francisco, which was already turning out traditional Italian-style pizzas from its wood-burning oven. Ed LaDou was the pizza chef there, and was hired by Wolfgang Puck when he was opening Spago, which was originally pretty much a knockoff of the Cafe at Chez Panisse.
I remember the New England Greek style from when we used to live in Arlington MA. One of the places in town was really good and may have actually been run by an Armenian family.
The excellent Romio's chain here in Seattle seems to be somewhere between New York style and New England Greek style in derivation. Definitely a Hellenic touch in decor, Greek salad and gyros on the menu.
Good Post! I'm sure there are many GREAT pizzas throughout the country and beyond. However, Tehrok, great pizza exists outside of Chicago. It is pretty arrogant to assume otherwise. I don't think you have tried PIZZA PORT in Solana Beach, CA (San Diego, North County). Not only is the pizza delicious, there is a great selection of local micro-brew beers as well. I'd like anyone traveling in the area to try this place. You won't be disappointed.
Everything that everyone has had to say about St. Louis-style pizza above is true. It's wonderful and it's awful, provel is both sickening and transcendentally amazing, and Cecil Whitaker's is different and in some ways better than Imo's.
Really ... it just takes some getting used to, and after that it's addictive. I hated it the first time I tried it, loved it the second time, and still go back and forth. I'll usually go with New York or Chicago deep-dish, but sometimes I just jones for St. Louis-style.
I don't know if it's a national thing or a regional variant just available in certain parts of Missouri or what, but I'm aware of two non-St. Louis pizzerias (McSalty's in Springfield and Shakespeare's in Columbia) which serve their pies on a wheat crust by default. It's not a dark, dry wheat crust -- McSalty's, I believe, refers to theirs as a "honey wheat" crust. A little less crisp / more flexible than standard New York style, but about the same thickness. Best. Stuff. Ever.
Here's another vote for Binghamton, New York's "sheet pizza"- I moved away from the area last year, and what I wouldn't give right now for a couple of slices from Nirchi's. As regards Old Forge pizza, all I can say from having lived in the area at one time is- yuck.
Oh Boy! Is K2kid right. That's New England pizza alright, but please don't take that as a recommendation. It is the slimiest, grossest pizza on the planet.
I live in Western Mass. and it's nearly impossible to find pizza which doesn't saturate the box and leave its toppings anywhere but on the dough. I have no idea why this is such a regional “specialty”, but it's beyond prevalent. I would only add that it's more common to find puddles of oil on the cheese topping than not. It tends to be really salty too. And the oregano laced tomato sauce is really good for heartburn.
To the Houston poster, Chicago stuffed pizza does not have two crusts. It has one fairly thin pie shaped crust. It is not filled with sauce and toppings then topped with cheese, it is done like this: A thin layer of crust with plenty of fresh cheese and topping, almost two inches, then sauce on top. The sauce on top is to keep the cheese from drying out as the pie is so thick. This isn't a eat and go pizza, this is a sit down meal. Many can only eat one slice as it is so thick and filling.
This is the same if you have Lou Malnatis, Gino's East or Giordano's. I don't know how you claim to be a native Chicagoan and post that. I also don't know how a place called serious eats can print misinformation. I just had Giordanos three nights ago and eat at Malnatis, my favorite, at least monthly.
New York style pizza in NE ohio starts at Pisanellos in Alliance Ohio. One of the best I've had around the country. This place still has the woman who founded the pizza shop 53 years ago making pizzas every day.It's a thin crust and you can tell that the dough is made fresh every day. This 80 year old woman still hand tosses the dough, about 100 pies a day. She came to this country from Rome 58 yrs ago and has been making pizzas ever since.
Many people in Ohio have heard of Pisanellos in Bowling Green, but the one in Alliance was and is the original.. I stop and get one or two every time I'm in the area.
I must also comment on the RI Pizza Strips - aka bakery pizza or party pizza. It was always served at birthday parties as a kid. It's simply pizza baked with sauce (no cheese - maybe a sprinkling of romano) and then sliced into rectangular pieces and served room temperature or cold. Heavenly. No one outside of RI has ever heard of this fantastic pizza. Such a shame. You'll find it in every Italian bakery in RI and in the grocery stores as well.
Caserta's, as someone mentioned, is another great pizza place in RI. We get ours well done. The pizza is a little on the thicker side (if you get a medium or large). The small tends to have a thinner crust. also not to be missed at Caserta's is the "wimpy skippy" (or spinach pie). Every single person that walks in to eat at Caserta's orders the wimpy skippy, in addition to their pizza. Twin's Pizza in Pawtucket is also great. Man, all this pizza talk makes me want to fly up to RI and eat!!!
The wonderful thing about growing up in New England/Northeast is that there are an abundance of pizza places and you really have the ability to get a variety of styles.
I'm a New Yorker born and raised. I make pizzas at home in a variation of the "grandma" style. After reading about Old Forge-style pizza, I tried mixing in a little sharp cheddar with my mozz. Ya know what? It's really good! It adds a nice "tang."
When I read "Ohio Valley Pizza" above, I knew immediately what you were talking about but there is only one chain who prepares it in that way these days, DiCarlo's. About 20 years ago there were several copy cats but they have long since closed down.
Honestly I'm not sure that the Ohio Valley deserves it's own pizza style category, but if it's all we've got we'd better hold on to it I suppose.
I moved away from Pittsburgh the Bay Area (where there is plenty of good pizza) and i STILL crave Aiello's!!!! Pittsburgh pies do have a unique taste- its the sweeter sauce.
Ohio Valley pizza certainly deserves its own category- its pretty unique.
If you want true Ohio Valley Pizza, you have to go to the Firehouse in Ambridge, PA on Merchant street. Only open on the weekends, the business is run by firemen to support the firehouse (we're talking real social capital here). Its not my favorite (really dougy crust) but its certainly an experience.
Another experience would be Tony R's pizza in Sewickley on Nevin Ave. A tiny pizzaria run by Tony (who does all the deliveries himself) and his two sons.
From a native Chicagoan to all the people saying that Chicago style stuffed pizza does not have a layer of crust on the top: look again!
Giordano's and Edwardo's and everywhere else I've gotten stuffed pizza in Chicago has a VERY THIN top crust right on top of the cheese, but under the sauce. It's so thin, you probably don't notice it. It IS there. I can promise you that.
There's another style of pizza that's missing: French Crust Pizza. I've only ever had it at Breadaux in Millstadt, IL, and Pagliai's in Charleston, IL. It's pretty basic, but very good. The crust is thin, but fluffy.
what the hell? where is dayton styled pizza? that is a glaring omission. it's ohio's own unique pizza style.
basically it's very, very thin round pizza, but cut into tiny squares. they use moz and the toppings go all the way to the edge. often to keep the pie from sticking the bottom it is salt crusted (rather than cornmeal or flour), which really gives it a great taste.
i think of it as extremely addictive party pizza.
the city of dayton, ohio has many individual outlets and chainlets. the biggest chainlets are cassanos: http://www.cassanos.com/
also, donato's of columbus, oh....recently bought and owned by freakin mcdonalds for awhile (!!!) is yet another version of dayton-style pizza: http://www.donatos.com/
my gawd, you guys really blew it by mentioning nebulous ohio valley and leaving this truly and extremely unique and locally popular ohio style off your list. i am hoping maybe you were just confused and really meant dayton-style pizza?
Yeah the Upstate style!!! The best is Brandani's on W.Henrietta rd. on Rochester. Pontillos does a nice job for a chain. Columbini's in Chili makes a good one and they have a bakery,so you grab some canoli too.
The Maryland style pizza mentioned before is from chains like: Ledo's, Stained Glass Pub, Corner Pub, Gentleman Jim's, T.J. Elliots, and Pizza Oven. Characterized by rectangular sheet pans, and pizza with a very thin crumbly buttery bisquit style crust. Sweet sauce and cheese is usually provelone but not always.
I gotta add a vote for Upstate NY Style - I grew up in Buffalo, went to school near Rochester. I now live in Florida.
Buffalo style pizza as pointed out is a thicker crust, not greasy, often a little doughy but crisp on the bottom. TONS of cheese... and almost always the peperroni is loaded on, smaller in diameter than most, but always with crisp edges on the pepperoni. Bocce is a great example of this.. but almost any roadside pizzeria in Buffalo has this formula.
Living in Florida, I am sick and tired of every kind of pizza place offering only "NY Style" pizza. Big thin floppy slices that taste like cardboard... I never understood the appeal of that. They taste especially crappy the next day cold... and cold pizza should be one of the BEST ways to eat pizza ;)
The more I think about it, I need to open a Bocce-style pizzeria in Orlando...
Ohio Valley Style. This native NY-er and sister of a Bronx Pizza Guy went to school in Steubenville, OH for a couple of years and tried Iggy's (the photo in the Mine Road Blog) exactly ONCE. I couldn't get my taste buds around it. I ordered from Domino's from then on in. There was a good midwestern style place in the Steubenville Mall that I've forgotten the name of (this was the early 90's.) I'm open to regional pizza variations (unlike my aforementioned Pizza Time Bro), but this did not work for me.
The calzones I had in Steubenville on the other hand, were a revelation. They were very, very good. Sauce inside? Sauce outside? Yum.
For those in New England, what about Papa Gino's? Yeh it's a chain, but it's essentially the blueprint for east coast pizza - thin crust, thin layer of cheese that melds perfectly with the somewhat sweet sauce. And on a "side note", two friends and I created http://www.slicefinder.com for just these debates. Pardon the plug, but seems relevant here.
i still have a soft spot for papa gino's, it's the only chain pizza i like. the only problem i've ever had with it is that they never used to peel the tomatoes so i would always end up with some in my teeth. not sure if that's changed since i haven't been there in a few years.
One more vote for Buffalo style. I've yet to find anything like it in DC, Virginia, California or Washington state. I have some shipped to me every year from Imperial. Carbones on South Park was also a favorite.
I wanted to chime in on the ongoing New England pizza discussion.
Papa Ginos is somewhat similar to the mom-and-pop stuff, but it's different in a few key ways: 'Ginos has a thinner crust than most local places, and it's less (!) greasy.
Thinking back to the local non-chain pizza of my northeast Connecticut youth, the distinguishing characteristics are a firm-but-not-crisp, doughy bottom, sometimes tending towards rubbery, and the use of cheap manufactured mozz, typically very oily. It tended to be the sort of pizza that, if you were eating a slice and folded it, you could pretty much squeeze several tablespoons of orange grease out of it. The crust tends to be crisp on the outside and soft inside, sometimes a little bready.
And the pizza places, almost always "[town name] Pizza" or [town name] House of Pizza", were uniformly owned by Greek families. (I never quite worked out why...but it was always faux-Italian food, pizza, and good Greek stuff on the menu.) I'm not sure if that's still as much the case now as it was 20 years ago, though.
Some places in New England seem to do the square-cut thing, which I think is truly blasphemous, while others pie cut. I've never been able to figure out a regional variation to this. It's just a weird individual preference of the restaurant owner, I think.
Why nobody in New England, at least north of New Haven, seems to be able to produce a decent NY-style thin-crust, I've no idea. Maybe it's the water.
My personal recommendation, if you wanted to "experience" a representative sample of New England-style pizza, would be to try Willington House of Pizza in Willington, CT. Although they have a menu that's more diverse than average, it covers pretty much everything I remember from all the local places I went as a kid.
andy stoops - I think Vincents is gone. You're talking about the place on Penn Ave, right? Yeah, that's Spak Bros. now. It's relatively new, and I haven't been there, but I've heard good things (they do all local/organic stuff, and have vegetarian and vegan offerings).
I never realized that Pittsburgh had sweeter sauce than other parts of the country. I would like to add that it's not just sweet, but usually well seasoned (at least the good ones are), sometimes a little kick to them. There are soooo many pizza places in town, and they're all different, but I haven't encountered any that aren't good. You can always find one that's right for you - the right taste to the sauce, texture to the dough, quantity of toppings. My personal favorite is Rialto's over in Greenfield (although I haven't been there in a few years).
Mineo's seems to be our most famous, but yeah, a bit overrated. Adam, if you make it to Pittsburgh, just order a slice from Mineos, NOT the whole pie. The slices are actually twice baked, which makes them way better.
I also think this is probably fairly local - the pierogie pizza. I refuse to try it, but a lot of local places have some variance of a pierogie pizza, because Pittsburgers seem to think that they invented the pierogie. A pierogie pizza will have mashed potatoes, onions and cheese.
I have no idea what cloyd42 is talking about. Vince the Pizza Prince is neither long gone nor do they make Old Forge style pizza. Vince's signature pizza is round and covered with almost-burned cheese. They are still open in Scranton in the same location they've always been.
I came to Columbus Ohio from central NJ, and have long taken issue with the Pizza here. It seems to be the product of gluttony over good sense. Round pies are cut into square pieces.because you can not lard a pizza with all the cheep ingredients, low grade cheese, greasy pepperoni, fatty sausage, and rivers of sugary sauce, that are considered necessary here, and serve it any other way than two inch square bites. When I want good pizza in central Ohio, I make it myself. In summer, I use a pizza stone on a charcoal grill, in winter I use my 550 degree oven, and follow the directions for Neapolitan, above.
There's a mouthwatering style of white pizza which seems to be peculiar to McKees Rocks, PA, just outside Pittsburgh -- I know I've never seen it prepared this way anywhere else and I eat a lot of pie, dude. I believe it originated at Mama Lena's (now Mama Mia's) and has been cloned by former employees at another shop down the street called Doughboys (which is cheaper & maybe even better, IMHO). I've never seen one prepared from start to finish, but here's my best guess as to the general idea: a medium-thickness pizza crust is brushed with olive oil & perhaps garlic or other spices and partially baked, then removed to add a light layer of some kind of white shredded cheese (don't think it's mozz), then baked again until done. The hot pie is then topped with a room-temperature prepared mixture of diced tomatoes, minced garlic, finely chopped onion & basil and olive oil and sprinkled with more shredded cheese. The pie partially melts the additional cheese and warms the topping mixture up to the perfect temperature while preserving the flavor & freshness of the ingredients. On every other white pizza I've had the tomatoes & other ingredients are baked along with the crust which dries them out. This stuff is almost like a big round bruschetta. I'm no longer in the 'burgh, but I might have just talked myself into driving 3 hours each way to get one right now -- it's that good.
Ohio pizza is the best....They actually have some really good pizza places there...The problem that i have is....i'm not there anymore =(....I'm in San antonio,Tx and there is one good pizza place [[Pizzabella]].They have the jumbo thin crust pizza...Its good but nothing like Canton Ohio's Papa Bears Pizza Oven , Wacos Pizza, East of Chicago,Napolians,So many different styles of pizza. And they don't have it in the south =(....
I just read comment above...(tomdobb)I didn't eat pizza when i came to Columbus but in Canton, Ohio u will get authentic Italian pizza made by the best owned italian family restaurants.
I grew up outside of East Liverpool Ohio, I never realized that pizza was made any other way until I moved to college. Bruno's pizza was a friday staple growing up, so much that now when I go home to visit my parents, my mother always picks up a tray. The best part if Ohio River Valley Pizza, is that it tastes just as good the next day out of the fridge! Home pizza in St. Clairsville is VERY good as well. I live in Columbus now, and the pizza just doesn't get to that level, but there is a DiCarlo's off of 256 in Pickerington, although I have not had it.
If anybody passes through Athens Ohio, Goodfella's pizza is a must. They sell by the slice, and it is close to Ohio Valley style, but they use a much thicker sauce. It was perfect after a night uptown at the bars.
This is an awesome page. My comment though is related to the DC jumbo slice. I can confirm that this is the appropriate style for this region as I have spent much time over the years in DC. Their slices at many pizzerias are the size of two average slices. They make a killing off of selling them to the college students. If a 16 inch pie normally has 8 slices, a DC pizza has 4.
New England Greek style pizza is not unique to New England. We have had it for about thirty years or longer it at a few places here in Central NY State but the common identifiable characteristis of place are shared: all the shops that serve it have some Greek decorations, a poster or two of Greece and also feature gyros and Greek salads on the menu. We also have other Greek owned pizza shops - a few of which serve very good pizza - but only a couple that serve this very idiosyncratic style.
I wouldn't characterize the Chicago thin crust style of pizza as a thinner, flakier, or even pastry like version of NY thin crust. I've had it at dozen's of places throughout the city and would classify it as follows:
A) A crust that tastes like it was cooked far too long in a 350 degree oven
B) Sauce that came straight from a can
C) Globs of over-processed mozzarella
D) Adding insult to injury, a method of slicing ("tavern-cut") that even most native Chicagoans decry as idiotic
I'm not a huge fan of deep dish, but I prefer it any day to the joke of a thin crust pie that is Chicago thin crust.
Great article/post. I want to mention a subset of Chicago deep dish pizza:
Burt's Place, Starback style Deep Dish Pizza, located in Morton Grove, North Suburb of Chicago.
I don't know how many places would qualify for this type. But there was a great article in Saveur magazine.
phaelon56 "New England Greek style pizza is not unique to New England. We have had it for about thirty years or longer it at a few places here in Central NY State"
It's not even unique to the North East. There used to be a place in Williamsburg Virginia that served Greek style pizza. It was damn good as well. It rivaled some of the pizza I've had up north in the "Pizza Belt", as I call it. Sadly the owner sold the place to an Italian family and they make a completely different pie. Not bad, but not nearly as good.
Cool. I looked over the list and comments pretty carefully, and I don't see the kind of pizza we had in Albuquerque growing up. There were at least two separate pizza mini-franchises that made it in the 80's--Nunzio's and Dion's; only Dion's is still operational, I think, though the Nunzio's folks came back as some other incarnation.... Anyway, it's based on a Neopolitan-type crust, I think, round, but thicker than Neopolitan or New York style throughout, crisp but not oily at all. Salty and chewy. Tomato sauce had a fair amount of oregano and basil, but not very paste-y, and in moderate amounts. Cheese was straight aged mozzarella, enough to cover all the sauce, nice and stringy, and green chile was a pretty usual topping :) The crust was breadstick-like-enough that many folks dipped it in Ranch after eating the pizza; a lot of folks dipped the whole slice in Ranch a bite at a time (not me!).
Marion's Piazza in Dayton, OH is its own class. Also, Ohio style pizza is its own distinct style as well. Not the Ohio valley style referenced in the article which I would call Youngstown style. True Ohio style pizza includes a thin cracker-like crust, toppings to the edge of said crust, and is always finished with a parm/spice blend just before being baked.
Hope it's not too late to comment on the New England Greek style pizza -- but considering it's one of my favorites (and considering Astoria just got a shout out in your most recent post) -- VOILA !! Gyro Uno, 28-01 Steinway Street (Steinway and 28th Ave), Astoria, NY 11103.
I've found reheated slices in house are vastly superior to whole pies. One of my favorite places to get pizza in NY (that IS saying a lot ...)
You are forgetting RI's wheat crust, which is similar to NY style, but a little flatter because it does not rise, and RI pizza strips, which are usually thicker squares with dried basil heavy sauce. Everyone here loves them.
I was totally unaware greek style was so uncommon. It's worthy of note- greek style usually ends up using cheddar/mozzarella blends.
I would also add two more distinctive pizza styles to your list, and both are peculiar to Philadelphia, and both are called "tomato pie." Not to be confused with Trenton tomato pie, these two Philly styles look and taste completely different from anything else called "tomato pie".
[personal note: I did an article for the Philadelphia Daily News in 2007 detailing these pies]
1. "Bakery-style" tomato pies are for the most part found in Italian bakeries, are served at room temperature, and feature a light, bread-like crust, topped with a spicy toimato sauce and a dusting of grated cheese. They are baked in large sheet pans and sold whole or by the slice, depending on the bakery. Famous outposts for this style are Marchiano's in Manayunk, Gaeta's in NE Philly, Michaelangelo's in Warminster, PA, Coropolese Bakery in Norristown, PA and the Conshohocken Bakery in Conshohocken, PA. There is a variant of this style that is actually served hot by a small chain of pizzerias called Santucci's in NE Philadelphia, and not only are the pies and sliced served hot, they are offered with toppings and even cheese on top of the sauce.
Not to be confused with:
2. NE Philly (Mayfair)Tomato Pie, peculiar to a small strip of NE Philly, the Mayfair neighborhood, specifically to Frankford Ave (Rte 13), a north-south artery of the city. This style features a very thin round crust, and is built "upside down", with slices of whole milk mozzerella, topped with a spicy red sauce. The original version of this pizza was made without cheese, and some old-timers still order it that way. The main outposts of this style are two places called "Tony's Place" , the original located on Frankford Ave, and a newer branch located in Ivyland, PA in Bucks County. Almost across the street from Tony's on Frankford, the Grey Lodge Pub, a famous beer bar/restaurant, serves a version of this tomato pie to those who know to order it. It is not listed on their menu.
Some of the best Pizza pies I have ever eaten were made in Germany by real Italians that owned a small shop near the base I was stationed at. It was served on a plate and was the size of the whole plate with incredible Italian salami. I do not remember what kind of style that it was but it does not sound like any of the ones listed above. Should have its own category for how good it was. Nice crust, crunchy with a perfect blend of chesses, fresh basil and great home made sauce. If I remember correctly it was incredible!
Then again I drank so much good German beer while stationed in Germany it could have easily been so so Pizza! :)
You totally missed San Fransisco style pizza. It has a sour dough crust.
When I was out at school in Ogden Utah back in the mid 1980s you could not get good pizza. It was all crap. The problem was the sauce they used, I think, no seasoning. The cheese could have been better too.
I'm from New York, so I know what pizzas supposed to be like. I was hating hating life with the crap they were pushing until my friends and I found this place that made San Francisco style pizza. It's not New York style, but it was good in it's own right. Different isn't always bad, so long as it's good.
Believe me coming from New England I can vouch that most pizza you get in this part of the country is either the "New England Greek House of Pizza" style which is uniform but very blah or the "Pizzeria" style which the people making it if asked what kind of pizza it is would tell you it's "round and has sauce and cheese" on it. lol Both are not very good. Lucky for me I grew up in North Providence so I go back to Mineral Spring Ave for some slamming Siclian-Style pizza. No one I have ever come across puts the cheese and topings under the sauce which is why I call it Sicilian-Style and not authentic Sicilian. People judge with their eyes more so than their taste buds. With that in mind it would be very difficult to put everything under the sauce. Customers wouls assume the topings are not on the pizza.
Does high school cafeteria pizza count as a regional pizza? Does it even count as a pizza? You can't get it outside of a high school. Ground beef with tomato sauce on a thick bready crust covered with American cheese. That was my favorite school lunch from the 60's.
I'm happy to see New England style "greek" pizza getting it's due. Growing up in the Boston area, it's pretty common and still my favorite style of pizza. I lived in North Jersey and NYC for five years and was generally disappointed in the slices you get on every street corner. I guess it's just what you're use too.
Thanks for commenting! Your comment has been accepted and will appear in a moment.
Add a comment:
Previewing your comment:
HTML Hints
Some HTML is OK: <a href="URL">link</a>, <strong>strong</strong>, <em>em</em>
Comment Guidelines
Post whatever you want, just keep it pleasant. We reserve the right to delete off-topic or inflammatory comments. Learn more at our Comment Policy page.
Print
Last week on Serious Eats, community member HeartofGlass asked: "How many different kinds of regional varations of pizza exist?"
Follow @slice on Twitter »
145 Comments:
http://www.matthewspizza.com/Home.htm
Matthew's in Baltimore is pretty distinctive.
coconutlime at 6:16PM on 01/24/08
Cool. Matthew's looks good, but I think what I'm going for here is a list of regional styles. So my criteria would be that at least a handful of pizzerias would have to be making a style. Is there a Baltimore-style pizza?
Adam Kuban at 6:20PM on 01/24/08
I grew up in Altoona, PA and there was yet another style I haven't seen outside of that region. It's served at the Altoona Hotel (actually a restaurant) and consists of a thick, Sicilian-style crust topped with tomato paste, a ring of green bell pepper, pepperoni and covered with American cheese. It's cut into squares and people swear by it. I'm sure I ate my fair share of it growing up, but I seem to have repressed the memory.
punkin712 at 6:59PM on 01/24/08
One more thing...this style, in one version or another, is served at about 4 other establishments in Altoona - all square, with thick crusts and a single slice of pepperoni on each square. Most others use the more traditional "pizza cheese" blends rather than American cheese.
punkin712 at 7:01PM on 01/24/08
Wow! That sounds interesting, punkin712. So Altoona has a style. Very interesting. Maybe I'll put Altoona Hotel on my list if/when I head out to Pittsburgh.
Adam Kuban at 7:07PM on 01/24/08
Chicago thin crust is the only pizza that I acknowledge. All others wish they were Chicago thin crust pizza.
(Ducking to avoid the New York slices that might be thrown at my head.)
maered at 7:28PM on 01/24/08
Wow, I'm truly honored that my post became an entry on Slice--this made my night!
Also, it showed this Jersey girl that there is a whole, wild wacky world of Midwestern pizza out there the Pizzaria Uno's she visited in Boston didn't do justice to--my favorite comment was from the Ohio Pizza blog, though: "nothing quite says, I’m from the middle of nowhere like making up your own style of pizza."
HeartofGlass at 7:35PM on 01/24/08
Also worth noting is the jumbo slice of Washington D.C. Similar to NY-style, but sold in huge, quarter-pie-sized slices, the jumbo slice is pretty good for eating, and much better for throwing.
jessohackberry at 7:45PM on 01/24/08
New England Greek? The House of Pizza's that dot the landscape?
k2kid at 8:16PM on 01/24/08
k2kid: Thanks for the tip. Will investigate New England Greek–style!
Adam Kuban at 9:00PM on 01/24/08
I grew up in Oregon's Willamette Valley. The most common "style" of Pizza around here is, well, I don't know--I just call it Oregon-style. But it is mostly about the crust--it's fairly thin, with a wide, very puffy, hollow brim that's always painted to the edge with sauce. Toppings tend to be light to moderate, and the bottom of the crust is always crisp, very sturdy, never floppy at all. Toppings tend toward the traditional, though on occasion, some California-style toppings creep in. This style is common to a number of regional chains, but seldom seen elsewhere. I've never had it outside of Oregon...
antrobin at 9:43PM on 01/24/08
I wonder if New England Greek style pizza is similar to the Greek style pizza found in Queens, New York (I'm thinking specifically of the Singas chain).
kathryn at 9:53PM on 01/24/08
I'm glad you included some Detroit-style pizza! If anyone here has ever been to Buddy's (a small chain of pizzerias in the Detroit metro area), their pies are the perfect example of this style.
jazspin at 10:41PM on 01/24/08
Antrobin: Is that like what Pietro's or Abby's serves? I lived in Salem for a couple years and am (somewhat) familiar. At the time, I didn't really pay as much studied attention to the pizza I was eating there.
Jazspin: The Wikipedia entry on Detroit style mentions Buddy's—and also Cloverleaf Pizza as the originator of the genre. How do the two compare?
Adam Kuban at 12:00AM on 01/25/08
In SE Pennsylvania one of the more common styles in the Greek style pizza.
I'm more a thin crust Italian style fan myself but around these parts folks for the most part thinf the Greek style in the way pizza is supposed to be made.
Commonly the name of the establishment will give a clue as to the style. Boston, Royal, or after the namer of a Greek God like Appollo, Diana, etc.
These are done in a pan with a side about a 1/2 inch in height and the sauce tends to be more acidic as opposed to sweet. The cheese blend is different too but I couldn't tell you what the make up difference is.
I've even see (The horror!!!) toppings underneath the cheese.
Stiv61 at 6:27AM on 01/25/08
I've never seen another pizza quite like Matthew's, but there's another Maryland-style pie best exemplified by the pizza at Ledo's: rectangular; thin, buttery crust; sweet sauce; and smoked cheese of some kind, usually provolone. (It sounds somewhat similar to the description of Old Forge, which I've never had, and that would certainly make some geographical sense.)
In addition to the original Ledo in College Park and the local franchises of same, I've had very similar pizza at a number of bars around the area, although the only specific one coming to mind right now is the Stained Glass Pub in Olney.
matt8313 at 7:22AM on 01/25/08
And, I wasn't aware there was a "Detroit Style" pizza either until I moved out of Michigan and couldn't believe there was not a single place you could get a "deep dish" like you could get at pretty much any pizzeria or party store (convenience store) around town. I especially miss Buscemi's as a blast from High School.
longtimegeek at 8:26AM on 01/25/08
Adam: Matthew's is pretty much the only independent pizza place in Baltimore City proper, so we have to take what we can get. Apparently there used to be more places that sold that style but urban blight and all that pretty much wiped them out.
coconutlime at 9:07AM on 01/25/08
I've had St. Louis-style many times, and the cheese they use (Provel) is a monstrosity, much like processed American cheese. In fact, it can't be labeled as simply "cheese" since it does not meet the FDA's moisture content requirements. Given that, and the matzoh-like crust, I think it just barely qualifies as "pizza."
foobar at 10:11AM on 01/25/08
Yes, the jumbo slice of DC is mainly known for it's size. There are many competing places offering this style. The link to the article below tells about the development of the jumbo slice, the competing claims of who has the "First Oldest Original Jumbo Slice," a laboratory-based nutritional analysis, and the fact that people only eat it when they are drunk.
jumbo slice lore of DC
pantsravaganza at 10:48AM on 01/25/08
I now live in St. Louis.
I moved there from New Jersey, where they do a perfectly passable New York style pizza.
My wife and I, after moving there, unwittingly went to Imo's and ordered a St. Louis style pizza.
It was so godawful that we decided there must have been some mistake.
So a week later we went to a different Imo's and ordered another one.
There was no mistake.
ajthornton at 10:53AM on 01/25/08
I don't have anything against Altoona, but I wanted to point something out. If you happen to be in Pittsburgh, Altoona is still pretty far away.
If you are in Pittsburgh, the pizza to try is:
1. Fiori's
2. Aiello's
Fiori's and Aiello's both have what I would call Pittsburgh style pizza: Sweeter sauce, and crust that is crunchy on the edges, and with more texture and flavor than the typical New York style pizza. Excellent, excellent, excellent. Those two shops do it the best.
mikes at 10:56AM on 01/25/08
foobar: Making every attempt to not give a true pizza fan a typical verbal thrashing on a message board, I can only simply say that i completely disagree with your statement about St. Louis style pizza. Provel cheese is a gift to the cheese world and to pizza lovers. Every time I am in St. Louis, i buy a 5lb. block of the stuff to bring back to the tastelest pizza world of Texas. Everyone that has tried the cheese that i brought back has asked how they can buy some.. There are several websites that offer it online and will ship it to you. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but.....
dallascorbin at 11:01AM on 01/25/08
Imo's pizza is the best ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO IMOS.... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
dallascorbin at 11:03AM on 01/25/08
Right on, New England Greek Style! My husband grew up north of Boston, and he has a childhood photo of the same small, orangey, grease-laden pie you can still get today at such a place. Distinguishing points:
* Thin crust with a firm, but not crackerlike, bottom, which is often oily enough to saturate the pizza box
* Tomato sauce heavily spiced with oregano
* Thin layer of cheese, sometimes a blend of mozz and cheddar
* Cooked long enough for the cheese to become molten, slippery, and sometimes separate, coating the entire top of the pie with orange oil
And one side note, you can also tell you're in a Greek pizza place by the all-Greek decor, gyro offerings, and a Greek salad that's 85% feta cheese. Oppa! :)
serafina at 11:07AM on 01/25/08
mikes - Good point about the sweetness of the sauce. If I recall correctly, the local sauce (DelGrosso's) in Altoona is a bit sweeter than the nationally bottled brands. Do you think that's a PA thing or just to that region?
Adam - Altoona is about 100 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, but a worthwhile side trip if you can swing it. OT, but I also suggest stocking up on Benzel's pretzels at their outlet store and maybe a case or two of Mallo Cups from Boyer Candy.
punkin712 at 11:33AM on 01/25/08
Adam,
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Pietro's (I don't even think there are any Pietro's left, actually), Abby's, Papa's (not Papa John's--Papa's, regional chain with about 7 locations), Tracktown, and several other Eugene/Salem area joints all serve pizza that is more or less the same. As I mentioned before, it's really a crust issue, though most of the chains mentioned keep the toppings pretty standard. Most of the "Oregon" pizza I mention also tends to be a bit heavy on the sauce.
antrobin at 11:36AM on 01/25/08
I grew up in Buffalo, and we had chain of pizza places called Bocces that supplied most of the locals with their pizza; and somehow, it somehow always comes up when I run into other former Buffalonians... The crust was maybe on the thicker side, kind of chewy, and usually a little more doughy (read: slightly undercooked). The sauce was simply tomato paste; and until I moved to NYC I thought that's what I thought everyone put on their pizzas.
Lydia9 at 11:44AM on 01/25/08
Well I'm glad to see someone from Pittsburgh with some sense- suggesting Aiellos rather than the much propagandized Mineos (ugh!). Aiellos does indeed have some tasty pizza, though the new place in the same neighborhood (Squirrel Hill) by the name of Luccis gives Aiellos a run for their money, at least to my mouth when I'm craving a non-margharita pizza. Also worth mentioning is Paparazzi's on the South Side. Often seen selling slices on the corner outside their establishment on bar-hopping nights, this small local bar and eatery makes a surprisingly good 'Pittsburgh style' pizza as Mikes describes a few comments above.
Still and all, nothing quite compares (for me) to Hot Mama's in Seattle. By far my favorite pizza (the Chef Special in particular), it was the bane of my existence back in my Vegan days (their sauce contains some cheese it seems), but oh man- now that the animal products are back in my diet those slices are the stuff that dreams are made of! If only pizza mail-ordered well...
EtherMaiden at 11:48AM on 01/25/08
I grew up in SE CT and grew up on "New England Greek," though I never heard it called that. I also worked a few, Botchis Pizza, Niantic Pizza and Flanders Pizza in East Lyme, CT. This type of Greek is not to be confused with "Greek" pizzas with olives, feta and other Greek ingredients. The dough is pressed out into olive-oiled pans with a small rim. The dough is pressed flat and then sauced. The pans are left out to rise, but only a little. We would then cheese them and toss them in the cooler. That would stop the rising. You would then draw on those throughout the day. If you ran out - no more pizza! The base cheese was a mixture of provolone and moz. If you wanted a "Mozzarella" pizza, the pizzaman would sprinkle another layer of moz over the base and toss the pan in the oven. Other ingredients went on top of the cheese. When it was done the pizza was scooped out of the pan, dropped onto a flat cardboard round and sliced, always with a long flat curved blade that pressed into the pizza and sliced as the blade rocked on it's curved edge. I never saw roller cutters and I'm not sure they would work as well on the slightly thicker, crisper pies.
The places I worked in and ate at did not, as I recall, have an acidic taste. But there may be variations.
Best things about this style: The crust gets very firm and crunchy due to the olive oil in the pan. It's a little thicker than NY style, but because it's risen it seems a little lighter. That crisper crust would support the extra cheesy "Mozzarella" pizza, and rarely got soggy.
I really miss that style and I wish there were a place in NYC that made it this way.
MikeNYC at 12:07PM on 01/25/08
Bocces is pretty lousy pizza, but Buffalo, and in fact Western and Upstate NY, do have a regional style, with a crust about halfway between NY style flat crust and Chicago deep dish and copious amounts of mozz, cooked at a lower temp than thin crust, which may account for the undercooked dough at Bocces--the temptation is to take the pizza out too soon. Also, here in Lockport NY, there are places that serve sweet sauce, others that serve "traditional," and still others that offer sweet, semi-sweet, and traditional. That might be the case elsewhere in WNY but I haven't checked.
barbarosa at 12:18PM on 01/25/08
I haven't seen anyone else comment, so I'll offer my two cents, being from Massapequa, LI, where Grandma Pizza was king (also, we called it Gramma Pizza).
Grandma pizza actually differs from Sicilian in a few ways (although that's probably the easiest way to describe it). The crust is somehow a little sweeter, maybe for being so thin (or maybe it's actually different -- my Grandma used to use a sweeter dough for her pizza). Also, there's less cheese, used in a thinner capacity -- not heaps of ooey-gooey cheese, more like the way fresh mozzarella is used -- and garlic features much more prominently than in a regular slice of Sicilian.
Oh, god, now I want a slice so badly I can actually taste it!
karatemonkey at 12:48PM on 01/25/08
Greek style pizza also exists in the hudson valley (mainly at the four brothers chain) with many of the characteristics cited above: baked in a pan, thicker crust that is a bit oily and puffy, not too much cheese, cheese that seems to be some kind of a blend, not straight mozz.
sloppy at 1:04PM on 01/25/08
Providence, R.I. is home to one very specific type of thin-crust Sicilian, and although I have never seen it anywhere else I can't figure out why. This style is my favorite thin-crust Sicilian.
The pizzas, which are large and rectangular, have no cheese and no toppings; Instead of toppings the pizza has a thick layer of well seasoned sauce that usually contains, among other things, a good amount of chopped garlic and pine nuts. After the pizza is baked it is cut into long rectangular slices and then refrigerated until cool.
This type of pizza is served in different bakeries all over the city, and is always served the same way: The pizza is room temperature to cold and is almost exclusively sold by the slice. If you're in the area I highly recommend checking it out. You can get it in almost any bakery, but if you do go, got to any Crugnale's. To get a great, hot thin-crust Sicilian in Providence go to Casserta's on Federal Hill.
Geoff_Prov at 1:07PM on 01/25/08
ohio pizza, as far as i'm concerned, has a thicker crust and a sweeter sauce than average pizza sauce. on the food network great pizza cookoff or whatever, that's what they said cleveland pizza was, and i've always believed it. i can barely tolerate pizza anywhere else. ;-)
marahe at 1:09PM on 01/25/08
One style you are missing is the Mountain style, or High Altitude pizza found in Colorado, Idaho, and Montana. Beaux Jo's (http://www.beaujos.com/menu.cfm) provides a great example of this kind of pizza. The thick crust is almost always served with mountain clover honey.
artifacting at 1:10PM on 01/25/08
Regarding New England Greek Pizza ... .. The crust is not really thin... but it is not as thick as sicilian... I heard that the crust is puffier than Neopolitan pizza because there is egg added to the dough... this seems to make sense to me.
Note that almost all mom-and-pop pizza shops in the Boston area serve this type of pizza. It is not uncommon to see two or three pizza places all walking distance from each other serving this same style. As someone who grew up in New York, I would rather eat a cheesey roll with tomato sauce than eat this pizza. I have found it hard to comprehend why there is no Neopolitan pizza up here... Is it that it is too hard to install the oven? Or is it that all pizza makers get their ingredients from the same source? Or is it that when I see 2 greek pizza shops next door to each other... the second shop was opened by a disgruntled employee that learned how to make pizza then opened a store next door...
Also... don't get me started on the lack of Diner's in the Boston area....
webguru at 1:23PM on 01/25/08
Connecticut has more than one style of pizza, btw. While the New Haven branch is great, my heart belongs to the medium crust, cooked in a greased pan, cut in squares pizza of my Hartford youth. The sauce is similar to the "Greek New England" style described by serafina, but with a thicker crust (not Sicilian thick, tho). Always commercial mozzarella, usually grated romano on top as well, and my favorite, fresh sausage chunks, put on raw, cooked as the pizza cooks, spreading the pork fat love over the whole pizza, none of those lazy slices of pre-cooked links! Have seen cheese put on top of other ingredients, but it's not common. Also, no selling of separate slices (the horror!). My family fights over which is better, the "corners" which have the maximum crust to innard ratio, or the inside slices, which have no edge crust at all. mmmm...
haneway at 1:27PM on 01/25/08
Unfortunately in most of the country "chain style" pizza prevails. The upstate New York style mentioned above seems similar to a local Marlyand/D.C./VA based chain called Ledo's. As my login name implies, I grew up on and remain partial to Trenton Tomato Pies (used to go to Hudson Street at least one a week with my dad, who had been going there almost weekly since he was in high school in the early '50s).
Delorenzosfan at 1:29PM on 01/25/08
The making/cooking method that MikeNYC describes is exactly the kind of crust that I'm talking about as non-New Haven "Connecticut" pizza.
haneway at 1:35PM on 01/25/08
No mention of DiCarlo's of Wheeling, WV?
The originators of the Ohio Valley style make sort of a deconstructed pizza - they bake the bread - not thin New York Style, but certainly not Sicilian either - and then add cold tomato sauce and shredded provolone. Yes, provolone, not mozz or cheddar.
The heat from the bread then warms up the sauce and cheese.
As mentioned, the sauce is really just stewed tomatoes with minimal spices.
tofoomeister at 1:38PM on 01/25/08
I have to ask for the inclusion of "sheet pizza", a staple in Binghamton NY and the surrounding area. Sheet pizza is cooked on rectangular cookie sheets. The sauce tends to be a little sweeter and cheese is a mozzarella/cheddar mix.
It is very common to have "white" pizza in sheet form. White with broccoli is a classic variation.
The classic topping for sheet pizza is another local delicacy, the spiedie (small chunks of highly marinaded meat - chicken & pork being most common).
Nirchi's serves the best sheet pizza.
mrvis at 2:22PM on 01/25/08
Adam, I'd like to know more about Sicilian pizza.
I'm from New Haven and have eaten pizzas throughout Connecticut, NYC and near the birthplace of Domino's (:() where, in fact, we shared plenty of puffy square pies, crusts sprinkled w sesame seeds, in places that were originally run by Greek immigrants. I've had similar pies in Connecticut where I can't say I've discerned a clear difference between Giovanni's Pizzeria and Thanos.
"Sicilian" strikes me as a misnomer. You say it's not very popular in New York and I see others refer to the type around the country. Do you know anything about its origins? Regional spread? If there's a genuine correlation between immigrants of Sicilian birth and the pie?
* * *
While this taxonomy certainly helps to distinguish Ray's slices from pizzas in New Haven and Chicago, I suspect there are quite a few other factors at play for some of the types identified here that have nothing to do with regionalism per se.
I'm willing to acknowledge that a local tradition can be established quickly and develop idiosyncratic features even when sparked by a number of outside forces, but it's not like we're talking about long developments that endure in a way that's comparable to the pizza that emerged in Naples well before tourism inspired its dissemination throughout Italy. (In neighboring Puglia, "pizza rustica" refers to a double-crusted savory torte, usually packed with sautéed greens. There's also, of course, a relationship between focaccia and the doughy or deep-dish pizzas that Americans ate long before they heard the f-word.)
Disclaimer: I haven't read much of anything on pizza in the U.S., so I'd find useful any dates, names, facts, etc.
Eliz. at 4:07PM on 01/25/08
RE: New England Greek Pizza mom-and-pop shops in the Boston area.
As with any type of food, there is a lot of variation in quality (and style)
in the independent shops. One feature of a few Greek owned pizza
shops is that they felt that the best olive was a Greek olive - when
you ordered a pizza with olives, they would reach over into the salad
making station, grab a big handful of Greek olives, pit them and
put them on the pizza. Places that did this tended to have the
best pizza because they didn't skimp in the quality of the ingredients.
[One place also considered "Peppers and Onions" to be one item
but would still give you a full layer of each!
We could order "Peppers and Onions and Black Olives"
as a two item pizza. Very helpful to the budget in my student days.]
My favorite restaurants are ones where the owner is watching the
plates and not just the register. These places tend to build a
loyal following.
bml1212 at 4:32PM on 01/25/08
RE: St. Louis Style Pizza
I'm a NY'er married to someone from St. Louis, and I had heard so much about St. Louis style pizza and Imo's, so I was really excited to try it. The first time I had it, it was absolutely horrible. I would not stop ribbing everyone I met about the horrid quality of their pizza. However, for sake of argument, I tried Imo's again two nighst later, and it was really good. The provell has a slightly tangy, almost peppery taste to it, and I really enjoyed. I think a huge taste difference arises on when, and who happens to make your pie at Imo's. Also, Wikipedia has an amazing article about Provell. Difara it ain't, but St. Louis pizza can be pretty great.
emilydickinson at 4:38PM on 01/25/08
Regarding St. Louis style, I have to agree with foobar and ajthronton. Provel is an abomination; to call it cheese is indeed a misnomer. I liken it in flavor and quality to Velveeta, except when provel cools, it coagulates and takes on a tacky, gelatinous texture that sticks in a lump to the roof of the mouth. When ordering a pizza in a new neighborhood restaurant last week, I triple-checked with the waitress that it did not have any provel, to which she responded, "you're not from around here, are you?"
slogger at 4:49PM on 01/25/08
St. Louis style pizza is disgusting to anyone who didn't grow up on it and the best thing ever to those that did. I live in St. Louis and thank god that not every place in town is in love with provel "cheese" I agree with above on the texture-very plastic like. gross.
St. Louisians love it though, so I try to withhold my comments to friends, however, I can't imagine being so infatuated with such a fake "food" like provel cheese. Many people here do not even realize that it isn't cheese.
Mozzarella and other italian cheeses win for me.
And for one other type of pizza from when I lived in chicago that no one ever talks about that I loved. Double Decker. Two thin Chicago pizzas stacked on top of each other and baked. The crispy layer in the middle was fantastic!
jardin32 at 5:28PM on 01/25/08
i cant find any sort of "baltimore" pizza style per se. but matthew's is its own unique creature. the crust is real buttery almost deep dish and always tons of cheese. i've taken a few pizza wolves there and they all mention its like no other pizza they've had before. the closest i've ever come across a pizza like matthew's was at zachary's in oakland california.
pizzawolfmd at 5:45PM on 01/25/08
I think you do a serious disservice to St. Louis style pizza by leaving out Cecil Whittakers. Their St. Louis style pizza does not use provel but a 5 cheese blend. While I like imo's well enough, Cecil Whittakers' pizza is the far better St. Louis style pizza. It is also important to note that, in my opinion, St. Louis style pizza is meant to be injoyed with side dishes, especially toasted ravioli.
Baron_Fel at 5:50PM on 01/25/08
There is an excellent pizza in northern Minnesota and northern Wisconsin, Sammy's Pizza, founded in 1954 in Hibbing, Minnesota by Sammy Perella. I've never found another one like it. It has a very thin, cracker-like crust made, as far as I can tell, with unleavened dough, like the St. Louis style you refer to. It is topped with an interestingly subtle orange-colored tomato sauce and thin mozzarella slices. I remember reading a newspaper article in the 1960s in Duluth, saying that Sammy had traveled to New York or Chicago (can't remember which) and bought the recipe from Italians there for $300. Sammy's Pizza now has several restaurants, most or all of them run by family members, in several Minnesota cities.
Wendell at 6:25PM on 01/25/08
Thanks for acknowledging Chicago thin-crust. Far more Chicagoans eat that style than deep dish -- that stuff's mainly reserved for the tourists.
me3dia at 6:48PM on 01/25/08
I haven't been yet, but my boyfriend raves about Senape's Pitza in Hazelton, PA. It is apparently another type of regional Pennsylvania pizza. There is at least one other place that sells a similar style. There are pics and more info on this Roadfood forum. Might be worth checking out if you do a pizza trip to Pennsylvania, I've been promised one this spring and am looking forward to it!
meguiar at 7:07PM on 01/25/08
Around Philadelphia, there is Italian pizza and Greek pizza.
They're readily identifiable by the name of the business -- Italian is always an Italian place or family name, and Greek is named for the locale or some other quality. Marone's and Bella Italia are two superb versions of Italian pizza. Ardmore Style Pizza, Real Pizza, and Royal Pizza are all Greek.
Italian pizza comes in varying sizes with a thinnish, flexible, chewy hand-tossed crust. (Mmm, with bubbles.) Because of the flexible crust, it can be hard to load it with a lot of ingredients. But the sauce, the melted cheese, the pepperoni and mushrooms. . . .The closest I've found in the San Francisco Bay Area is Pizza My Heart, which I adore beyond measure. Ideally, it's more Neapolitan and less crisp than a NY-style pizza.
Then there's Sicilian pizza, which is square and bready.
Greek pizza comes in one size -- 12 inches -- and has a thick, chewy crust, lots of very salty cheese, and lots of oregano. And I would drop everything to find a decent Greek-style pizza out here.
In upstate PA, there is also Old Forge style pizza. With cheddar! I miss that, too.
Wordweaverlynn at 7:16PM on 01/25/08
Adam - The story I heard many years ago is that the Detroit style started at an eastside (Italian) bar called the Cloverleaf by some enterprising bar chef. The pizza was a hit and the originator was hired away from the Cloverleaf (circa 1960's?) and over to Buddy's then Sheild's or vice-versa. The original Buddy's & Sheilds were close to each other in the city. I used to stop at the original Buddys after softball - met Leon Spinks one evening. The style is readily available at both of these small local chains and is quite good. Buscemi's is similar on the eastside. It is unique and very different from Papa Del's that I started on. Good eats.
det0321 at 7:36PM on 01/25/08
First, this is an excellent discussion. I grew up in New Haven county and was at first shocked to move to Massachusetts and be unable to get what I had known as pizza all my life. It got worse when I moved to NH and then visited Maine where clerks asked me questions like "what type of crust would you like?" - Because they had things like whole wheat... which is definitely not good eats in my opinion. I've eaten the real Chicago stuff and it's great, but arguably isn't pizza. One note is that a lot of the pizza places in New Haven refer to their stuff as Apizza, (pronounced "A-beets") in signs and in conversation. I think I'm going to take the 75 mile drive back to Pepi's... thanks for this post!
omgwtfbbq at 7:51PM on 01/25/08
Pontillos, Batavia, NY
nostudme at 7:54PM on 01/25/08
If your in Pittsburgh PA then you have to stop by Vincents Pizza. Thick crust, a lot of toppings, never round though they do try and enough grease for a year. They no longer feature the Vinnie secret ingredient, the end of his cigarette, but it is still good.
andy stoops at 8:31PM on 01/25/08
New England bakery pizza. Pizza with sauce and no cheese, thick bready crust, served cold. I had this in San Francisco once, too, where they called it "focacia pizza". Served in grocery stores, bakeries, and even some convenience stores.
jefchoice at 8:49PM on 01/25/08
The Greek pizzas of New England are what I would call "House of Pizza" pizzas, because most "HOP"s are run by Greek families. I would add that the crust is usually undersalted, and airy if not downright spongy right below the topping. I've never encountered a Greek HOP pizza that had cheddar on it, thought. In my 33 years of eating pizza around N.E., it's always been straight mozzarella, if not a mozz/romano blend.
BipolarLawyerCook at 9:08PM on 01/25/08
i'm surprised that i didn't see apizza from Bar in the New Haven style pizza section.... their pizza is just plain awsome, it's made up until 2 A.M. on the weekends, and i think that it falls more in line with traditional new haven apizza than Modern. I think Modern is delicious pizza, but Bar's pizza falls more in line with the New Haven style than Modern.
the farther away from Wooster St. you go, the pizza gets rounder, less greasy, thicker crusted, and gets served on more run of the mill platters, until you end up in the suburbs with just crummy pizza.
I think the best part of real new haven pizza is the fact that a lot of these places don't play games. Pepe's and Sally's for instance, serve pizza. and that's it. every pie's a large, they don't make calzones or antipasto, you're there to eat the pizza, and if you're not, you can leave.
plus there's always a line, and you meet some cool people waiting in line.
ctdubbin at 10:37PM on 01/25/08
Old Forge Pizza--I grew up eating and loving the stuff. My favorite (long gone) was Vince the Prince in Scranton. Here are more specifics: it's always a rectangular pizza and it has a fried consistency. It's always served on a rectangular cafeteria-style tray on the kind of waxed paper you grab donuts with. The cheese is specifically Cooper cheddar cheese if it's the real stuff. Purists prefer no more than one topping and usually have none. Best places to go: the bars along the main street in Old Forge but it's available through the whole Wyoming Valley (stay away from the mall places!).
Wash it down with a Ballantine Ale--heaven.
cloyd42 at 11:10PM on 01/25/08
There is also "Brier Hill" style pizza which is basically sauce, bell peppers, and a generous amount of romano cheese. You can read more about it on the wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brier_Hill
TomH1976 at 11:11PM on 01/25/08
Hey, Adam. What a fine, comprehensive and scholarly review.
Might I suggest you consider yet another style, one that isn't necessarily "regional," yet increasingly popular. I'll call it nouveau organic/locavoric.
In my experience, Jules' Thin Crust, in Doylestown, PA ( with a recently added outlet in Newtown, PA...refer to my Slice review). LA area pizzavores might choose to add Wolfgan Puck and his disciples to the list of producers of NO/L pizzas. These pizzas are thin crust pies, using homemade sauce and toppings that are seasonal, local and often organic (thus, the locavore appellation). I choose locavore, the 2007 Oxford Dictionary word-of-the-year (http://www.locavores.com), to describe this style, as the pies often use locally-grown toppings.
famdoc at 11:52PM on 01/25/08
I just wanted to add to the "california style" (it's a big state) by giving props to the cheese board in Berkeley. They feature only one kind of pie a day, with a thin sourdough crust, no tomato sauce, and some combination of cheeses, veggies(not overdone and sometimes including potato or arugula) and olive oil.
presley at 11:54PM on 01/25/08
As a resident who lives near Old Forge, and having sampled many different styles of pizza around the country, I would have to say that Old Forge knows no competition. That being said, Old forge pizza is far more individually stylistic than any pizza I have ever had. I am not simply in the mood for Pizza. . . I find myself in the mood for Revello's Pizza, or Arcaro & Genell's Pizza. . . Each resteraunt is distinctly different in it's exact ingrediants. The style is idenitifed by the way it is shapped and cooked.
There is controversy over the cheese. While some may argue that pizza requires mazzarella cheese, that is certainly not the case. Old Forge Pizza prizes itself on it's unique taste. There are only a few resteraunts that can claim to be original Old Forge Pizza and any bad experiences with the style are sure to be from an imitator.
Don't believe me? Stop by and order a tray of pizza. Old Forge is only a few minutes away from Scranton and WIlkes-Barre. Just don't call it a pie.
Harnao at 11:59PM on 01/25/08
As a lifelong Ohio Valley resident, I'd like to commend the author for recognizing the local pizza as a unique "style". tofoomeister writes above that the pizza is sauced cold, which is not correct. I know of none of the ten or so DiCarlo's that do this. DiCarlo's is the most widely known purveyor of the "square" pie which is typically baked in a square pan yielding 16 slices or in a rectangular yielding 28. There are several in my town (Wheeling WV) and all bake the crust with a sauce on that most closely resembles a mild marinara. The pizza is spread with a modest amount of provolone that is either shredded or crumbled depending on the exact pizzeria that preps it and it is sliced and sold by the slice. Extra cheese and a few slices of pepperoni are added when the slices are boxed for the customer. The cheese is thus cool on a hot slice if it is immediately eaten in the parking lot (which it often is since most of the places that sell this style have no eat in facility). There are also several other notable and good shops that sell the squares besides the aforementioned DiCarlo's. These are Bruno's in Elm Grove section of Wheeling; Zontini's in Martins Ferry Ohio; Home Pizza in St. Clairsville, Ohio; and Osso's in Washington, PA. There are several north of Wheeling area in the Steubenville, OH / Weirton, WV area also but the names don't readily come to mind other than DiCarlo's which is a loosely affiliated little chain of independent shops.
Almost all such places are difficult to find because these are small and locally owned operations adding to their quirky charm. All locals will know where they are so just ask if you are in the UPPER Ohio Valley where the Northern Panhandle of West Virginia lies jammed like a spike between Ohio and Pennsylvania. This is the only region that I am aware of that has this style of pizza.
One final note: The Ohio Valley style is not for everyone. People either love it or hate it, deriding it as no more than ketchup on cardboard with a whisper of mystery cheese. Just remember the ancient Roman saying, "Where tastes are concerned, there can be no argument."
scottrodo at 12:46AM on 01/26/08
Adam & everyone -- a couple of comments regarding Detroit pizza. I'm a native of the Detroit area and still reside in a suburb of Detroit. Just wanted to shed some light on our pizza. Det0321 has it just a little mixed up. The first square deep dish in southeastern Michigan was indeed Buddy's on 6 Mile & Conant, opened in the 40's. Some of the original pizza cooks that worked for them during their first 20 years eventually struck out on their own, creating most notably Loui's Pizza, Shields & the original Cloverleaf Bar & Restaurant, located on Gratiot Avenue in Eastpointe (formerly called East Detroit, the city where I grew up). Now the Cloverleaf Pizza link that was provided above, in one of the other comments is no longer related to the original Cloverleaf Bar on Gratiot; the two locations on that particular weblink are basically carry-out places and carry both Cloverleaf square pizza and round pizza. The original Cloverleaf on Gratiot opened in the latter 50's or early 60's and only serves square pizza.......no rounds; the original is still the only location. Buddy's now has 20-30 locations, but most are carryout only; I believe there are only a few sit-down Buddy's Pizza restaurants (2-3 in southeastern Michigan area). Shield's Pizza has also developed into a chain, but I'm not sure how many there are total -- maybe 4 to 5??? But to wind things up, my personal favorite is Loui's Pizza in Madison Heights, only one location and only serving square. And the reason that I like it best is that their crust isn't as thick as the rest; it's created more like a Chicago-type thinner crust, formed into a 2" deep pan. It's not as doughy as Buddy's or Shields. Another plus with Loui's is the cheese blend that they use and the fact that they cube their cheese (about 1/2" diameter), instead of shredding. It really adds to the ooziness factor! So if you ever find yourself in our neck of the woods, please try Loui's, the original Cloverleaf, Buddy's and Shields.......in that order! Happy tasting.
deedeemoski at 5:52AM on 01/26/08
It's hard to find a good neapolitan pizza shop in the Boston area. The best I've found is Sweet Tomatoes in Newton Center. I think there's a few other shops around.
Besides that, my standard of excellence is Sal and Carmines on Broadway and 105th. That is a perfect NY slice right there.
This is such a great list.
mosled at 8:32AM on 01/26/08
Being from New Haven (which is near new york as well) and living around the corner from both Pepe's and Sally's, I've had all the major types of pizzas (NY, NH, Greek, Cicilian) and let me assure you that nothing is like new haven style pizza. But, it is not exactly like how it was described in the article. New Haven pizza is not thicker than New york style, it is THINNER! Sally's is extra thin and pepe's is inbetween NY style and Sally's. About all the other styles well, let me put it this way, if it ain't cooked in a coal fired brick oven...IT AIN'T PIZZA! If you disagree with that statement, then you dont' know pizza!
kaptainsteve at 12:01PM on 01/26/08
Utica-style maybe a variation (Utica NY) this is more a variation than its own style maybe but all the toppings are under the cheese. I spent a couple summers in central New York and I have never seen it anywhere else.
tjd1skier at 12:42PM on 01/26/08
artifacting, above, is correct.
Colorado/Mountain style is very distinct. The crust is of medium thickness, but very sweet, and with honey.
The toppings can vary from traditional to California-style.
I'm from Jersey, by the way, but I live in Colorado now. So I have pizza knowledge.
yesno at 2:27PM on 01/26/08
Almost all of the people I know in Chicago think of stuffed pizza when you say "Chicago Style." In my experience, it's only people outside of the area that think of deep dish - thanks mostly to chains like pizzeria uno. Stuffed pizza is a whole nother thing.
spoke at 3:44PM on 01/26/08
i grew up in mt lebanon,out side of pittsburgh and i remember a place on washington rd that had a thin crust with seasonings on the bottom of the crust. oil would be dripping off your elbow in under a min.
myvtol at 4:38PM on 01/26/08
Nice read :)
I would like to add my own contribution to this great article. I hail from the small town of Hazleton PA, about an hour away from Old Forge, and about 2 hours from NYC. Hazleton has a long history of immigrants settling in Hazleton and we have a style of pizza that is one of my favorite foods hands down. Its called Senape's Pitza. yea... pitza, i don't know how spelling came to be so literal, but its a delicious food without a doubt. Its similar to sicilian pizza, rectangular in shape, but served at room temperature, after being cooked of course. I am no food connoisseur but i am only familiar with two different brands of "deli style pizza", Senape's and Longo's both from Hazleton, and i have never seen it sold anywhere outside a 20 mile radius of Hazleton. I had a teacher in high school who had a relative who was the coach for the Los Angeles Angels, and he was from Hazleton. When this guy would return to Los Angeles he would bring boxes and boxes of Senape's pizza back with him in which his players would devour, or so i am told. So if you are ever in the north east PA region, check out a local grocery store for Senape's Pitza :)
Arudien at 4:42PM on 01/26/08
Old Forge style is awesome. We used to get it at a joint in Plains Township. I've also had it in Old Forge itself. The potato pies were awesome. Unfortunately, they use the peanut oil, which my oldest son is allergic to, so no more.
I love Chicago style and this article makes me want to travel. The Utica style sounds interesting.
Been to Altoona about ten times and don't recall the Altoona Hotel. Altoona is the only place where I've heard slices called "cuts." It's about a 2 1/2 train ride from Pittsburgh.
Tomato pies (Trenton) are popular all the way up the Delaware River to the Lehigh Valley area.
maxpe at 5:45PM on 01/26/08
Throughout Long Island, New York, pizza's been evolving - one could argue devolving.
Pizza joints are topping regular slices with all sorts of Italian American entrees - yes, a pie is topped with literally an full size entree worth of food. From baked ziti to eggplant parmesean. Last time I was back on LI visiting family, there was chicken marsala pizza, of all things.
SFLboogie at 6:15PM on 01/26/08
Hmm...my photo of the LI pizza didn't stick to my post. Here's the link to my blog that has a pic of a half-ziti, half-eggplant pizza.
Link
SFLboogie at 6:17PM on 01/26/08
I am from Old Forge as well. People from outside the area either love it or hate it. We just had it for dinner tonight from a newer place called Mancuso's. I agree with the previous poster about having a craving for a specific place's pizza. Some have onions in the crust, some use a blend of cheese that sticks to the roof of your mouth more. Some use Cheddar and some use American cheese primarily, but most use a blend of different cheeses. Several places in towns hours away claim to have Old Forge style pizza, but it usually is a poor imitation. Old Forge is also known as the Pizza Capitol of the World not because its pizza is any better than anywhere else but per capita, it has more pizza places than any other place and they are all packed on a Friday night.
rpp124 at 7:18PM on 01/26/08
See my description of Old Forge pizza on this thread: www.chowhound.com/topics/305174
guttergour at 10:08PM on 01/26/08
CHICAGO STUFFED PIZZA DOES NOT HAVE A LAYER OF CRUST ON TOP. it is not 'all dough' like many people i have met from NY tend to believe.
its like a pie, sauce on top. many cant understand this simple concept.
if you never had anything from here then i highly recommend ordering it online.. giordanos.com has it great for mailorder.
be careful after eating this though..youll hate all other pizza forever.
tehrok at 10:36PM on 01/26/08
by the way.. after traveling the US and eating almost only pizza.. you wont find good pizza outside of chicago, get over it!
tehrok at 10:37PM on 01/26/08
Regarding Chicago stuffed pizza, there are two crusts, between the bottom and top crusts are the fillings, sauce and cheese are on the top. Crusts are not thin or thick.
I am a native Chicagoan, grew up on excellent thin crust but like stuffed, less bread than deep dish. I received a shipment of Lou Malnatti's thick crust pizza from my sister (thank you), share it with friends in Houston, they now understand why I am not a fan of pizza in Houston.
I am surprised not to see flame war regarding pepperoni versus sausage. Only non natives eat pepperoni pizza in Chicago - Italian sausage rules. Had "white pizza" in central PA (pretty good), had incredible sheet pizza in Hartford - toppings were simple, olive oil, garlic, clams and rosemary, it was amazing.
Houston's pizza is a bit sad - Tex-Mex, Cajun, and Texas BBQ rules here. As I mentioned, you can order pizza from Chicago (and elsewhere) and have it shipped.
coratx at 12:37AM on 01/27/08
Hi. Wikipedia has its entry for New Haven style pizza (under "Apizza") flagged to be deleted due to lack of citations. Just thought this might be a handy place to tell someone about it. Who might know how to do something, that is.
Duane at 6:49AM on 01/27/08
Alright, I'm fully aware that I'm going to get my a*** kicked for saying this, but I just have to. Australia's whole fast food pizza industry is based upon the Hawaiian Pizza. Cheese, Ham and lovely lovely Pineapple on a thick doughy crust. Hawaii is in the States. America has to have invented Hawaiian Pizza's, right? :)
Duane at 6:55AM on 01/27/08
I must comment on the Rhode Island phenomenon known as "Pizza Strips." You can get a "party tray" or individual strips (The party tray is cut into cubes but if you get strips it is usually the size of one by three cubes) of cold/room temperature "pizza" that is on a thick crust, depending on the source it may be dry (Depetrillo's) or VERY oily, (Calvitto's). There is a thick layer of sauce on the crust but NO CHEESE, though a few places sprinkle parmesan on top.
These are sold at Italian Bakeries and supermarkets, not pizza joints. A party tray is a fixture at every Christening, Shower, Birthday, Anniversary.....whatever.
Shadykt2 at 10:42AM on 01/27/08
I am a native of Northeast Pennsylvania, but have lived in Washington DC, Philadelphia, and now southern California. I am a total pizza hound and can never really decide what is the best. It's like asking what's the best kind of steak. If I'm in the Midwest, there's nothing like deep-dish and Old Style. A very nice pinot grigio goes real well with California style.
As a native, I have to give a plug to Old Forge. Old Forge is always square, and is always a mid-high Sicilian crust. Peanut oil is a must. A very hot oven is a must - remember, this was hard coal country back in the day, and coal fire stoves could get up to 800 degrees Farenheit. The cheeses are a mystery - I have heard American, Cooper Sharp, White Cheddar, Mozzarella, and even some distant cousin of Monterey Jack used.
There is also "White" Old Forge pizza. This is nothing like Pizza Bianco or a round pie, but more like a grilled cheese sandwich. The pan is oiled, of course, then the dough (or shell) put down, then the cheeses, and then a second layer of dough. Then oil is put on the second layer of dough, and salt, pepper, oregano, and rosemary are sprinkled on top. There is nothing like it anywhere else in the US - and I've looked!
NEPA Mike at 10:38PM on 01/27/08
That Spenapes *Pitza* isn't unique unto that establishment around the Philly area that concoction is called a *Canoe* like the water borne vehicle.
There's a very good place in Media called Pinoccio's that makes them and fab strombolis too.
I've been eating them for years.
Stiv61 at 12:07PM on 01/28/08
Good call on the "NE-Greek Style" pizza, as this seems to be its own distinct regional style of pie. Growing up near Boston, I believe this is by far the most common type of independently-made pizza available (disregarding the popular Papa Gino's chain - but that's another story). Indeed, my wife (born and raised in Detroit) commented upon moving here that "every town has its own 'House of Pizza'". I imagine that this is due to the lack of Italian surnames among the owners; besides, each town can only have one 'HoP', right?
to be continued...
Mattyhorn at 1:08PM on 01/28/08
I must also comment on the "Sicilian Bakery-Style Pizza", as this is a completely different style than the norm. I'll use as my example the great "Tripoli's Bakery" in Lawrence, Mass. [Lawrence's nickname is "The Immigrant City", as many, many of its former and current inhabitants came here to work in the mills. This resulted in a highly diverse population, though the majority were Irish, then Italian/Sicilian. So there once were many, many pizza shops, including Greek and Lebanese varieties, and overall quality varied greatly]
Tripoli's is a full-service bakery, but also has a separate counter for pizza and meat pies only, and makes what I'm told is authentic Sicilian pizza: square, thin crust, lightly seasoned tomato sauce, very little cheese (mozzarella only), very crisp and made in very large sheets. Often, whole sheets are par-cooked in advance, then reheated, slice by slice, as ordered. Slices can also be ordered with pepperoni or a single thin slice of imported provolone. Importantly, the crust does not rise when cooked, so it stays crispy and is never oily or grease-laden.
This was nearly the only pizza we had growing up, partly because Tripoli's pizza could be bought frozen (uncooked) in bags, then conveniently baked in the toaster oven (or grilled), as two slices fit perfectly. [This is not your usual frozen pizza!]
The pizza is so distinctive, that the bakery also operates a pizza stand at Salisbury Beach, MA, which is constantly busy and open year-round (yes, even in the winter). The funny thing is that another beach stand, Christy's, serves suspiciously-similar pizza only two doors down from the Tripoli's stand, yet is also successful. Around there, the debate of "Christy's vs. Tripoli's" pizza is second perhaps only to the "chicken vs. egg". (They're both pretty darn good.)
I would love to hear if anyone knows any further details about the venerable Tripoli's/Christy's history or other details about Lawrence.
[And don't get me started on meat pie....]
Mattyhorn at 1:34PM on 01/28/08
It basically comes down to this: if you haven't had pizza in Italy, and specifically in Naples, then you can't be said to have eaten pizza at all. There are some good American versions, and some creative variations, as we can see from the list, but fundamentally it's a Neapolitan creation. You have to start there before making blanket judgements about Chicago pizza or New York pizza.
spike666 at 4:56PM on 01/28/08
Miami has various "Cuban pizza" chains such as Ray's (no relation to the NYC chain" and Montes de Oca. Only had it once....very chewy, with an extremely sweet sauce that recalls, ugh, Domino's. You can get it topped with plantains, potatoes, etc. Not my thing, but my dad's been known to order it down there.
DKA at 7:49PM on 01/28/08
"California pizzas" were first made at the Cafe at Chez Panisse when it opened in 1980. The innovation was quickly picked up by other local restaurants, most notably Prego in San Francisco, which was already turning out traditional Italian-style pizzas from its wood-burning oven. Ed LaDou was the pizza chef there, and was hired by Wolfgang Puck when he was opening Spago, which was originally pretty much a knockoff of the Cafe at Chez Panisse.
RobertLauriston at 7:56PM on 01/28/08
I remember the New England Greek style from when we used to live in Arlington MA. One of the places in town was really good and may have actually been run by an Armenian family.
The excellent Romio's chain here in Seattle seems to be somewhere between New York style and New England Greek style in derivation. Definitely a Hellenic touch in decor, Greek salad and gyros on the menu.
Stushi at 2:23PM on 01/29/08
Good Post! I'm sure there are many GREAT pizzas throughout the country and beyond. However, Tehrok, great pizza exists outside of Chicago. It is pretty arrogant to assume otherwise. I don't think you have tried PIZZA PORT in Solana Beach, CA (San Diego, North County). Not only is the pizza delicious, there is a great selection of local micro-brew beers as well. I'd like anyone traveling in the area to try this place. You won't be disappointed.
Michael James at 4:57PM on 01/29/08
Everything that everyone has had to say about St. Louis-style pizza above is true. It's wonderful and it's awful, provel is both sickening and transcendentally amazing, and Cecil Whitaker's is different and in some ways better than Imo's.
Really ... it just takes some getting used to, and after that it's addictive. I hated it the first time I tried it, loved it the second time, and still go back and forth. I'll usually go with New York or Chicago deep-dish, but sometimes I just jones for St. Louis-style.
I don't know if it's a national thing or a regional variant just available in certain parts of Missouri or what, but I'm aware of two non-St. Louis pizzerias (McSalty's in Springfield and Shakespeare's in Columbia) which serve their pies on a wheat crust by default. It's not a dark, dry wheat crust -- McSalty's, I believe, refers to theirs as a "honey wheat" crust. A little less crisp / more flexible than standard New York style, but about the same thickness. Best. Stuff. Ever.
thomaslknapp at 5:26PM on 01/29/08
Here's another vote for Binghamton, New York's "sheet pizza"- I moved away from the area last year, and what I wouldn't give right now for a couple of slices from Nirchi's. As regards Old Forge pizza, all I can say from having lived in the area at one time is- yuck.
Captainfirst at 8:49PM on 01/29/08
Oh Boy! Is K2kid right. That's New England pizza alright, but please don't take that as a recommendation. It is the slimiest, grossest pizza on the planet.
I live in Western Mass. and it's nearly impossible to find pizza which doesn't saturate the box and leave its toppings anywhere but on the dough. I have no idea why this is such a regional “specialty”, but it's beyond prevalent. I would only add that it's more common to find puddles of oil on the cheese topping than not. It tends to be really salty too. And the oregano laced tomato sauce is really good for heartburn.
Verdict: Avoid if possible.
SeamusAndrewMurphy at 10:14PM on 01/30/08
To the Houston poster, Chicago stuffed pizza does not have two crusts. It has one fairly thin pie shaped crust. It is not filled with sauce and toppings then topped with cheese, it is done like this: A thin layer of crust with plenty of fresh cheese and topping, almost two inches, then sauce on top. The sauce on top is to keep the cheese from drying out as the pie is so thick. This isn't a eat and go pizza, this is a sit down meal. Many can only eat one slice as it is so thick and filling.
This is the same if you have Lou Malnatis, Gino's East or Giordano's. I don't know how you claim to be a native Chicagoan and post that. I also don't know how a place called serious eats can print misinformation. I just had Giordanos three nights ago and eat at Malnatis, my favorite, at least monthly.
ChicagoRay at 12:16PM on 01/31/08
New York style pizza in NE ohio starts at Pisanellos in Alliance Ohio. One of the best I've had around the country. This place still has the woman who founded the pizza shop 53 years ago making pizzas every day.It's a thin crust and you can tell that the dough is made fresh every day. This 80 year old woman still hand tosses the dough, about 100 pies a day. She came to this country from Rome 58 yrs ago and has been making pizzas ever since.
Many people in Ohio have heard of Pisanellos in Bowling Green, but the one in Alliance was and is the original.. I stop and get one or two every time I'm in the area.
barney at 7:10PM on 01/31/08
I must also comment on the RI Pizza Strips - aka bakery pizza or party pizza. It was always served at birthday parties as a kid. It's simply pizza baked with sauce (no cheese - maybe a sprinkling of romano) and then sliced into rectangular pieces and served room temperature or cold. Heavenly. No one outside of RI has ever heard of this fantastic pizza. Such a shame. You'll find it in every Italian bakery in RI and in the grocery stores as well.
Caserta's, as someone mentioned, is another great pizza place in RI. We get ours well done. The pizza is a little on the thicker side (if you get a medium or large). The small tends to have a thinner crust. also not to be missed at Caserta's is the "wimpy skippy" (or spinach pie). Every single person that walks in to eat at Caserta's orders the wimpy skippy, in addition to their pizza. Twin's Pizza in Pawtucket is also great. Man, all this pizza talk makes me want to fly up to RI and eat!!!
The wonderful thing about growing up in New England/Northeast is that there are an abundance of pizza places and you really have the ability to get a variety of styles.
AS1979 at 5:24PM on 02/22/08
I'm a New Yorker born and raised. I make pizzas at home in a variation of the "grandma" style. After reading about Old Forge-style pizza, I tried mixing in a little sharp cheddar with my mozz. Ya know what? It's really good! It adds a nice "tang."
It pays to be open-minded :)
NewYorkDave at 5:49PM on 04/06/08
When I read "Ohio Valley Pizza" above, I knew immediately what you were talking about but there is only one chain who prepares it in that way these days, DiCarlo's. About 20 years ago there were several copy cats but they have long since closed down.
Honestly I'm not sure that the Ohio Valley deserves it's own pizza style category, but if it's all we've got we'd better hold on to it I suppose.
Ellavemia at 10:57AM on 04/12/08
I moved away from Pittsburgh the Bay Area (where there is plenty of good pizza) and i STILL crave Aiello's!!!! Pittsburgh pies do have a unique taste- its the sweeter sauce.
Ohio Valley pizza certainly deserves its own category- its pretty unique.
If you want true Ohio Valley Pizza, you have to go to the Firehouse in Ambridge, PA on Merchant street. Only open on the weekends, the business is run by firemen to support the firehouse (we're talking real social capital here). Its not my favorite (really dougy crust) but its certainly an experience.
Another experience would be Tony R's pizza in Sewickley on Nevin Ave. A tiny pizzaria run by Tony (who does all the deliveries himself) and his two sons.
katie123 at 2:03PM on 05/07/08
From a native Chicagoan to all the people saying that Chicago style stuffed pizza does not have a layer of crust on the top: look again!
Giordano's and Edwardo's and everywhere else I've gotten stuffed pizza in Chicago has a VERY THIN top crust right on top of the cheese, but under the sauce. It's so thin, you probably don't notice it. It IS there. I can promise you that.
There's another style of pizza that's missing: French Crust Pizza. I've only ever had it at Breadaux in Millstadt, IL, and Pagliai's in Charleston, IL. It's pretty basic, but very good. The crust is thin, but fluffy.
Cavies_98 at 4:55PM on 05/25/08
what the hell? where is dayton styled pizza? that is a glaring omission. it's ohio's own unique pizza style.
basically it's very, very thin round pizza, but cut into tiny squares. they use moz and the toppings go all the way to the edge. often to keep the pie from sticking the bottom it is salt crusted (rather than cornmeal or flour), which really gives it a great taste.
i think of it as extremely addictive party pizza.
the city of dayton, ohio has many individual outlets and chainlets. the biggest chainlets are cassanos:
http://www.cassanos.com/
and marions:
http://www.marionspizza.com/
a marion's pizza photo:
http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
also, donato's of columbus, oh....recently bought and owned by freakin mcdonalds for awhile (!!!) is yet another version of dayton-style pizza:
http://www.donatos.com/
my gawd, you guys really blew it by mentioning nebulous ohio valley and leaving this truly and extremely unique and locally popular ohio style off your list. i am hoping maybe you were just confused and really meant dayton-style pizza?
mrnyc at 1:46AM on 08/19/08
Utica Style: No cheese
harlequinir at 12:41PM on 09/19/08
Aha!
St. Louis Style all the way! Ok, my opinion maybe, but I love it! A close second for me is Chicago deep dish from Lou Malnatti's.... Heavenly!
St Louis Pizza Ratings
ctn100 at 11:58AM on 12/10/08
Yeah the Upstate style!!! The best is Brandani's on W.Henrietta rd. on Rochester. Pontillos does a nice job for a chain. Columbini's in Chili makes a good one and they have a bakery,so you grab some canoli too.
beersnob at 12:56AM on 12/27/08
The Maryland style pizza mentioned before is from chains like: Ledo's, Stained Glass Pub, Corner Pub, Gentleman Jim's, T.J. Elliots, and Pizza Oven. Characterized by rectangular sheet pans, and pizza with a very thin crumbly buttery bisquit style crust. Sweet sauce and cheese is usually provelone but not always.
Tasty_Crabs at 8:55PM on 12/28/08
I gotta add a vote for Upstate NY Style - I grew up in Buffalo, went to school near Rochester. I now live in Florida.
Buffalo style pizza as pointed out is a thicker crust, not greasy, often a little doughy but crisp on the bottom. TONS of cheese... and almost always the peperroni is loaded on, smaller in diameter than most, but always with crisp edges on the pepperoni. Bocce is a great example of this.. but almost any roadside pizzeria in Buffalo has this formula.
Living in Florida, I am sick and tired of every kind of pizza place offering only "NY Style" pizza. Big thin floppy slices that taste like cardboard... I never understood the appeal of that. They taste especially crappy the next day cold... and cold pizza should be one of the BEST ways to eat pizza ;)
The more I think about it, I need to open a Bocce-style pizzeria in Orlando...
Machineman at 10:41PM on 12/28/08
Ohio Valley Style. This native NY-er and sister of a Bronx Pizza Guy went to school in Steubenville, OH for a couple of years and tried Iggy's (the photo in the Mine Road Blog) exactly ONCE. I couldn't get my taste buds around it. I ordered from Domino's from then on in. There was a good midwestern style place in the Steubenville Mall that I've forgotten the name of (this was the early 90's.) I'm open to regional pizza variations (unlike my aforementioned Pizza Time Bro), but this did not work for me.
The calzones I had in Steubenville on the other hand, were a revelation. They were very, very good. Sauce inside? Sauce outside? Yum.
bronxbrinergal at 11:43AM on 12/29/08
For those in New England, what about Papa Gino's? Yeh it's a chain, but it's essentially the blueprint for east coast pizza - thin crust, thin layer of cheese that melds perfectly with the somewhat sweet sauce. And on a "side note", two friends and I created http://www.slicefinder.com for just these debates. Pardon the plug, but seems relevant here.
gregdodge at 4:14AM on 12/31/08
i still have a soft spot for papa gino's, it's the only chain pizza i like. the only problem i've ever had with it is that they never used to peel the tomatoes so i would always end up with some in my teeth. not sure if that's changed since i haven't been there in a few years.
sloppy at 11:08AM on 12/31/08
Here's a working URL to the DC jumbo slice lore article:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=29582
wamitchell at 1:59PM on 01/26/09
One more vote for Buffalo style. I've yet to find anything like it in DC, Virginia, California or Washington state. I have some shipped to me every year from Imperial. Carbones on South Park was also a favorite.
buffalolover at 4:57PM on 01/26/09
There are 3 kinds of pizza: Good, Better and Best. You be your own judge.
dmcavanagh at 6:35PM on 01/26/09
I wanted to chime in on the ongoing New England pizza discussion.
Papa Ginos is somewhat similar to the mom-and-pop stuff, but it's different in a few key ways: 'Ginos has a thinner crust than most local places, and it's less (!) greasy.
Thinking back to the local non-chain pizza of my northeast Connecticut youth, the distinguishing characteristics are a firm-but-not-crisp, doughy bottom, sometimes tending towards rubbery, and the use of cheap manufactured mozz, typically very oily. It tended to be the sort of pizza that, if you were eating a slice and folded it, you could pretty much squeeze several tablespoons of orange grease out of it. The crust tends to be crisp on the outside and soft inside, sometimes a little bready.
And the pizza places, almost always "[town name] Pizza" or [town name] House of Pizza", were uniformly owned by Greek families. (I never quite worked out why...but it was always faux-Italian food, pizza, and good Greek stuff on the menu.) I'm not sure if that's still as much the case now as it was 20 years ago, though.
Some places in New England seem to do the square-cut thing, which I think is truly blasphemous, while others pie cut. I've never been able to figure out a regional variation to this. It's just a weird individual preference of the restaurant owner, I think.
Why nobody in New England, at least north of New Haven, seems to be able to produce a decent NY-style thin-crust, I've no idea. Maybe it's the water.
My personal recommendation, if you wanted to "experience" a representative sample of New England-style pizza, would be to try Willington House of Pizza in Willington, CT. Although they have a menu that's more diverse than average, it covers pretty much everything I remember from all the local places I went as a kid.
kadin at 8:10PM on 01/26/09
andy stoops - I think Vincents is gone. You're talking about the place on Penn Ave, right? Yeah, that's Spak Bros. now. It's relatively new, and I haven't been there, but I've heard good things (they do all local/organic stuff, and have vegetarian and vegan offerings).
I never realized that Pittsburgh had sweeter sauce than other parts of the country. I would like to add that it's not just sweet, but usually well seasoned (at least the good ones are), sometimes a little kick to them. There are soooo many pizza places in town, and they're all different, but I haven't encountered any that aren't good. You can always find one that's right for you - the right taste to the sauce, texture to the dough, quantity of toppings. My personal favorite is Rialto's over in Greenfield (although I haven't been there in a few years).
Mineo's seems to be our most famous, but yeah, a bit overrated. Adam, if you make it to Pittsburgh, just order a slice from Mineos, NOT the whole pie. The slices are actually twice baked, which makes them way better.
I also think this is probably fairly local - the pierogie pizza. I refuse to try it, but a lot of local places have some variance of a pierogie pizza, because Pittsburgers seem to think that they invented the pierogie. A pierogie pizza will have mashed potatoes, onions and cheese.
namber at 1:06PM on 01/27/09
I have no idea what cloyd42 is talking about. Vince the Pizza Prince is neither long gone nor do they make Old Forge style pizza. Vince's signature pizza is round and covered with almost-burned cheese. They are still open in Scranton in the same location they've always been.
tomdobb at 5:59PM on 01/27/09
I came to Columbus Ohio from central NJ, and have long taken issue with the Pizza here. It seems to be the product of gluttony over good sense. Round pies are cut into square pieces.because you can not lard a pizza with all the cheep ingredients, low grade cheese, greasy pepperoni, fatty sausage, and rivers of sugary sauce, that are considered necessary here, and serve it any other way than two inch square bites. When I want good pizza in central Ohio, I make it myself. In summer, I use a pizza stone on a charcoal grill, in winter I use my 550 degree oven, and follow the directions for Neapolitan, above.
Marya1 at 4:31PM on 01/28/09
There's a mouthwatering style of white pizza which seems to be peculiar to McKees Rocks, PA, just outside Pittsburgh -- I know I've never seen it prepared this way anywhere else and I eat a lot of pie, dude. I believe it originated at Mama Lena's (now Mama Mia's) and has been cloned by former employees at another shop down the street called Doughboys (which is cheaper & maybe even better, IMHO). I've never seen one prepared from start to finish, but here's my best guess as to the general idea: a medium-thickness pizza crust is brushed with olive oil & perhaps garlic or other spices and partially baked, then removed to add a light layer of some kind of white shredded cheese (don't think it's mozz), then baked again until done. The hot pie is then topped with a room-temperature prepared mixture of diced tomatoes, minced garlic, finely chopped onion & basil and olive oil and sprinkled with more shredded cheese. The pie partially melts the additional cheese and warms the topping mixture up to the perfect temperature while preserving the flavor & freshness of the ingredients. On every other white pizza I've had the tomatoes & other ingredients are baked along with the crust which dries them out. This stuff is almost like a big round bruschetta. I'm no longer in the 'burgh, but I might have just talked myself into driving 3 hours each way to get one right now -- it's that good.
Pizzatarian at 12:09PM on 02/27/09
Ohio pizza is the best....They actually have some really good pizza places there...The problem that i have is....i'm not there anymore =(....I'm in San antonio,Tx and there is one good pizza place [[Pizzabella]].They have the jumbo thin crust pizza...Its good but nothing like Canton Ohio's Papa Bears Pizza Oven , Wacos Pizza, East of Chicago,Napolians,So many different styles of pizza. And they don't have it in the south =(....
kala13420 at 4:48AM on 04/16/09
I just read comment above...(tomdobb)I didn't eat pizza when i came to Columbus but in Canton, Ohio u will get authentic Italian pizza made by the best owned italian family restaurants.
kala13420 at 4:59AM on 04/16/09
I grew up outside of East Liverpool Ohio, I never realized that pizza was made any other way until I moved to college. Bruno's pizza was a friday staple growing up, so much that now when I go home to visit my parents, my mother always picks up a tray. The best part if Ohio River Valley Pizza, is that it tastes just as good the next day out of the fridge! Home pizza in St. Clairsville is VERY good as well. I live in Columbus now, and the pizza just doesn't get to that level, but there is a DiCarlo's off of 256 in Pickerington, although I have not had it.
If anybody passes through Athens Ohio, Goodfella's pizza is a must. They sell by the slice, and it is close to Ohio Valley style, but they use a much thicker sauce. It was perfect after a night uptown at the bars.
AthensGTI at 12:30PM on 04/28/09
This is an awesome page. My comment though is related to the DC jumbo slice. I can confirm that this is the appropriate style for this region as I have spent much time over the years in DC. Their slices at many pizzerias are the size of two average slices. They make a killing off of selling them to the college students. If a 16 inch pie normally has 8 slices, a DC pizza has 4.
Blog Pizza
Blog Pizza at 2:00PM on 07/02/09
New England Greek style pizza is not unique to New England. We have had it for about thirty years or longer it at a few places here in Central NY State but the common identifiable characteristis of place are shared: all the shops that serve it have some Greek decorations, a poster or two of Greece and also feature gyros and Greek salads on the menu. We also have other Greek owned pizza shops - a few of which serve very good pizza - but only a couple that serve this very idiosyncratic style.
phaelon56 at 12:20PM on 01/19/10
No matter the style any "americanized" pizza beats an italian pie hands down.
Pizza's I had in Italy were just plain awful:(
jonnie3legs at 7:21PM on 01/25/10
I wouldn't characterize the Chicago thin crust style of pizza as a thinner, flakier, or even pastry like version of NY thin crust. I've had it at dozen's of places throughout the city and would classify it as follows:
A) A crust that tastes like it was cooked far too long in a 350 degree oven
B) Sauce that came straight from a can
C) Globs of over-processed mozzarella
D) Adding insult to injury, a method of slicing ("tavern-cut") that even most native Chicagoans decry as idiotic
I'm not a huge fan of deep dish, but I prefer it any day to the joke of a thin crust pie that is Chicago thin crust.
asgold25 at 8:16PM on 01/29/10
Great article/post. I want to mention a subset of Chicago deep dish pizza:
Burt's Place, Starback style Deep Dish Pizza, located in Morton Grove, North Suburb of Chicago.
I don't know how many places would qualify for this type. But there was a great article in Saveur magazine.
StephenUESNYC at 1:34PM on 02/07/10
phaelon56 "New England Greek style pizza is not unique to New England. We have had it for about thirty years or longer it at a few places here in Central NY State"
It's not even unique to the North East. There used to be a place in Williamsburg Virginia that served Greek style pizza. It was damn good as well. It rivaled some of the pizza I've had up north in the "Pizza Belt", as I call it. Sadly the owner sold the place to an Italian family and they make a completely different pie. Not bad, but not nearly as good.
.
Raiders757 at 4:07PM on 02/08/10
Cool. I looked over the list and comments pretty carefully, and I don't see the kind of pizza we had in Albuquerque growing up. There were at least two separate pizza mini-franchises that made it in the 80's--Nunzio's and Dion's; only Dion's is still operational, I think, though the Nunzio's folks came back as some other incarnation.... Anyway, it's based on a Neopolitan-type crust, I think, round, but thicker than Neopolitan or New York style throughout, crisp but not oily at all. Salty and chewy. Tomato sauce had a fair amount of oregano and basil, but not very paste-y, and in moderate amounts. Cheese was straight aged mozzarella, enough to cover all the sauce, nice and stringy, and green chile was a pretty usual topping :) The crust was breadstick-like-enough that many folks dipped it in Ranch after eating the pizza; a lot of folks dipped the whole slice in Ranch a bite at a time (not me!).
okupin at 1:49AM on 02/09/10
Marion's Piazza in Dayton, OH is its own class. Also, Ohio style pizza is its own distinct style as well. Not the Ohio valley style referenced in the article which I would call Youngstown style. True Ohio style pizza includes a thin cracker-like crust, toppings to the edge of said crust, and is always finished with a parm/spice blend just before being baked.
cjpenfield at 10:55AM on 02/11/10
Discover the secrets of real New York pizza!
http://www.scottspizzatours.com
Walking tours and Bus tours!
Pookabunny at 12:57PM on 02/12/10
Hope it's not too late to comment on the New England Greek style pizza -- but considering it's one of my favorites (and considering Astoria just got a shout out in your most recent post) -- VOILA !! Gyro Uno, 28-01 Steinway Street (Steinway and 28th Ave), Astoria, NY 11103.
I've found reheated slices in house are vastly superior to whole pies. One of my favorite places to get pizza in NY (that IS saying a lot ...)
samm at 5:33AM on 02/16/10
I imagine someone else has probably already said it in this mess of comments, but:
pizza fritta!
vinoportland at 2:14AM on 02/23/10
Hoboken, NJ is also known for their jumbo slices of pizza which have a very thin crust.
dozertx at 12:18PM on 03/08/10
You are forgetting RI's wheat crust, which is similar to NY style, but a little flatter because it does not rise, and RI pizza strips, which are usually thicker squares with dried basil heavy sauce. Everyone here loves them.
I was totally unaware greek style was so uncommon. It's worthy of note- greek style usually ends up using cheddar/mozzarella blends.
weekendofsound at 9:02PM on 03/16/10
I would also add two more distinctive pizza styles to your list, and both are peculiar to Philadelphia, and both are called "tomato pie." Not to be confused with Trenton tomato pie, these two Philly styles look and taste completely different from anything else called "tomato pie".
[personal note: I did an article for the Philadelphia Daily News in 2007 detailing these pies]
1. "Bakery-style" tomato pies are for the most part found in Italian bakeries, are served at room temperature, and feature a light, bread-like crust, topped with a spicy toimato sauce and a dusting of grated cheese. They are baked in large sheet pans and sold whole or by the slice, depending on the bakery. Famous outposts for this style are Marchiano's in Manayunk, Gaeta's in NE Philly, Michaelangelo's in Warminster, PA, Coropolese Bakery in Norristown, PA and the Conshohocken Bakery in Conshohocken, PA. There is a variant of this style that is actually served hot by a small chain of pizzerias called Santucci's in NE Philadelphia, and not only are the pies and sliced served hot, they are offered with toppings and even cheese on top of the sauce.
Not to be confused with:
2. NE Philly (Mayfair)Tomato Pie, peculiar to a small strip of NE Philly, the Mayfair neighborhood, specifically to Frankford Ave (Rte 13), a north-south artery of the city. This style features a very thin round crust, and is built "upside down", with slices of whole milk mozzerella, topped with a spicy red sauce. The original version of this pizza was made without cheese, and some old-timers still order it that way. The main outposts of this style are two places called "Tony's Place" , the original located on Frankford Ave, and a newer branch located in Ivyland, PA in Bucks County. Almost across the street from Tony's on Frankford, the Grey Lodge Pub, a famous beer bar/restaurant, serves a version of this tomato pie to those who know to order it. It is not listed on their menu.
Rich Pawlak at 11:40AM on 03/19/10
The "stuffed" pizza is from the Southern part of Italy, like Gaetta
LaCaliforniana at 7:21PM on 04/12/10
Some of the best Pizza pies I have ever eaten were made in Germany by real Italians that owned a small shop near the base I was stationed at. It was served on a plate and was the size of the whole plate with incredible Italian salami. I do not remember what kind of style that it was but it does not sound like any of the ones listed above. Should have its own category for how good it was. Nice crust, crunchy with a perfect blend of chesses, fresh basil and great home made sauce. If I remember correctly it was incredible!
Then again I drank so much good German beer while stationed in Germany it could have easily been so so Pizza! :)
MyLocalPizzaGuy at 9:51PM on 04/18/10
You totally missed San Fransisco style pizza. It has a sour dough crust.
When I was out at school in Ogden Utah back in the mid 1980s you could not get good pizza. It was all crap. The problem was the sauce they used, I think, no seasoning. The cheese could have been better too.
I'm from New York, so I know what pizzas supposed to be like. I was hating hating life with the crap they were pushing until my friends and I found this place that made San Francisco style pizza. It's not New York style, but it was good in it's own right. Different isn't always bad, so long as it's good.
Wolfsbane at 4:14AM on 05/06/10
Who burned the hell out of the Neapolitan? It's wood-fired, not char broiled! There should never be black crust on a pizza!
timhood at 1:21AM on 05/18/10
Believe me coming from New England I can vouch that most pizza you get in this part of the country is either the "New England Greek House of Pizza" style which is uniform but very blah or the "Pizzeria" style which the people making it if asked what kind of pizza it is would tell you it's "round and has sauce and cheese" on it. lol Both are not very good. Lucky for me I grew up in North Providence so I go back to Mineral Spring Ave for some slamming Siclian-Style pizza. No one I have ever come across puts the cheese and topings under the sauce which is why I call it Sicilian-Style and not authentic Sicilian. People judge with their eyes more so than their taste buds. With that in mind it would be very difficult to put everything under the sauce. Customers wouls assume the topings are not on the pizza.
BIGNEIL at 4:36AM on 06/10/10
Does high school cafeteria pizza count as a regional pizza? Does it even count as a pizza? You can't get it outside of a high school. Ground beef with tomato sauce on a thick bready crust covered with American cheese. That was my favorite school lunch from the 60's.
whirata at 4:15AM on 06/14/10
I'm happy to see New England style "greek" pizza getting it's due. Growing up in the Boston area, it's pretty common and still my favorite style of pizza. I lived in North Jersey and NYC for five years and was generally disappointed in the slices you get on every street corner. I guess it's just what you're use too.
dsilbermann at 2:22PM on 06/25/10