PrintThin-Crust Pizza in Chicago? Yes, and It's Outstanding at Vito & Nick's
Daniel Zemans, our man in Chicago, checks in with another piece of intel on the Windy City pizza scene. Daniel also blogs about Chicagoland pizza on the Chicago Pizza Club blog. —The Mgmt.
Vito & Nick's Pizzeria
8433 South Pulaski Road, Chicago IL 60652 (map); 773-735-2050; vitoandnick.com
The Skinny: Very thin, crackerlike crust "bar pizza" cut into squares. Sparse sauce but plenty of toppings
It is a common misconception that Chicago-style pizza is limited to deep dish and stuffed pies. There are even many residents of Chicago who don't realize that their city has its own distinctive style of thin crust pies—a very thin pie with a crisp, almost crackerlike crust that is cut into small squares. At the same time, there are plenty of Chicagoans who think of that thin-crust style to be the true Chicago-style pizza. Personally, I don't care which one people think of as "the" Chicago style, I'm just glad I live in a city that has all three.
For your introduction to Chicago's distinctive thin-crust pizza, I went to a place few tourists ever venture other than to see the Museum of Science and Industry or the University of Chicago: the South Side. Specifically, I went to the Ashburn neighborhood, located on the Southwest side. About three miles south of Midway Airport and one mile east, Vito & Nick's stands on the corner of 84th and Pulaski.
Vito and Mary Barraco opened their first tavern in 1923. Another location opened a few years later, and in 1939, they started selling some Italian food. In 1945, their son Nick joined the family business, and four years later Mary began making pizzas with a dough recipe that remains a secret to this day. In fact, even the guys who make the pizza do not know how to make the dough. Nick's daughter comes in and makes the dough a few times a week, and the cooks do everything else. Also keeping the family tradition strong is Nick's sister Lee, who is a couple years shy of 90 and works as a waitress every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night.
People do not go to Vito and Nick's for the décor. Most of the walls are covered in carpet rather than wallpaper or paint and the tables are formica. Little has changed about the place over the years. In fact, despite the popularity of its pizzas among Chicagoans and, increasingly, foodies from all over, it remains a bar that serves pizza and not a pizza restaurant, and people under 21 are still not allowed unless accompanied by a parent.
And just as the décor and outstanding pizza remain throwbacks, I would be remiss in not reporting that from what I can tell, the demographics of the clientele have not changed much even as the neighborhood has transitioned in recent years from being largely an Irish enclave into a racially diverse neighborhood. I point that out not to suggest anything sinister, but rather to give you a feel for the place—Vito and Nick's is a white, largely Irish neighborhood tavern that has been around for nearly a century, and serves some of the best pizza in the world.
Regardless, I wasn't there to look at the décor or even the people; I was there to give my taste buds a treat. The crust, which I introduced earlier, is very thin. It is thicker than a Neapolitan pizza, but thinner or as thin as traditional New York–style pizza. Traditionally, it was served in bars, as is the case at Vito & Nick's, and some people still call it bar pizza. The pizza is cut into pieces that are about 2 or 3 square inches, a size that will surely please those of you who inaccurately criticize deep dish and stuffed pizzas as requiring a knife and fork.
That said, this pizza is, in the Chicago tradition, designed for communal enjoyment at the restaurant: It is not sold by the slice and Vito & Nick's refuses to deliver.
The sauce on the pies is much more sparse than on the other two Chicago styles. The amount of toppings, however, is very much in line with deep dish and stuffed pizzas: there is a lot. Still, despite all the cheese and toppings and the limited amount of sauce, you are able to taste the sauce and that is a very good thing. On tonight's pizza, I got two uniquely Chicago toppings. First, I had what they list on the menu as sliced beef, but is actually a version of Italian beef. For those who don't know, Italian beef is a thinly sliced, heavily seasoned roast beef that soaks in its own juices for a long time before it is served. As a pizza topping, I think they skipped the soaking part, which is a good thing as soggy pizza is not good pizza.
The second topping we had was giardiniera. Note that Chicago-style giardiniera differs from the traditional Italian antipasto. In the Chicago version, the vegetables always include some variety of hot pepper, and vegetables marinate in oil, rather than pickling in vinegar. Giardiniera is a common topping for Italian beef so it was a natural fit for my pizza.
As is always the case when I've gone to Vito and Nick's, the pizza was exceptional. The crust was perfect, the toppings were fresh, and the sauce served as a perfect complement to both. I particularly enjoyed my chosen toppings (the first time I have tried those two together), but I've never had bad toppings there. They only use fresh vegetables, they make their own sausage, and even the shrimp are good.
There is another small chain of restaurants called Vito & Nick's II that has a handful of locations in the Chicago area and a couple of places in Arizona. But while Vito and Nick's II emphasizes its ties to the original, Vito & Nick's states in block letters on its website, NOT AFFILIATED OR ASSOCIATED WITH VITO AND NICKS II IN MOKENA IL OR ANY LICENSEE OR FRANCHISEE. It seems likely that some family squabble got overblown and that there is some bad blood. Perhaps not at Manganaro's level, but there's still something amiss.
Those of you who are in Chicago who have never been to Vito & Nick's, head there ASAP and fall in love. Those of you who aren't from Chicago, there are plenty of good reasons to visit; Vito & Nick's is one of them.
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23 Comments:
Sorry, I grew up near Homewood on Aurelio's thin crust. That will always be the best for me, with Sanfrantello's (Glenwood) a close second. I never knew our Giardiniera different. Thanks for giving props to Chicago pizzas - great reviews.
DJ Dedd at 2:30PM on 06/19/08
secret dough recipe?
Flour, salt, yeast, water.
benlee at 2:44PM on 06/19/08
So what's the difference between this and St. Louis-style pizza à la Imo's?
veggiegirl at 11:17PM on 06/19/08
There are a couple major differences between this and St. Louis-stlye pizza. The crust in St. Louis is thinner and dryer - it's pretty much a cracker. More importantly, St. Louis style pizza does not have mozzarella. In St. Louis pizzas are topped with a cheese product called provel which is a combination of provolone, cheddar and swiss cheese and some chemicals.
But pizza in St. Louis is often cut into squares. The same is true of thin pizzas in other MIdwestern locales as well.
Daniel Zemans at 2:12AM on 06/20/08
"Party cut" is the correct terminology.
Chicago thin rules. Notice the edges. When I eat pizza, I don't need a breadstick left over like other styles of thin crust.
Garvey at 11:03AM on 06/20/08
"Party cut"? How about "Party pizza", as in this stuff is something akin to what's served at Chuck E. Cheese at my 9 year old cousin's birthday bash. Yeah, I've had Chicago thin and it's good for what it is, but it does not stack up. I'm sorry, Dan - if you would have hit something other than Arturo's and Lombardi's when you lived in NY, you'd know what I was talking about. Look at that burned, aged mozz. And there is no magic dough being made over there. Here's a magic dough: ground semolina wheat berries, yeast, water, a piece of yesterday's dough, and maybe a pinch of sea salt a la A.W. Mangieri. No secret there, buddies, no need to keep secrets.
I'm not saying it's bad, but it is bush league
DJ Bubbles at 12:19PM on 06/20/08
I guess if I want a foldable bread taco that tastes like a carpet sample painted with tomato juice, I can always go to NY.
Garvey at 2:54PM on 06/20/08
Nice try Daniel, but how about some text and photos of Spacca Napoli and Trattoria DOC. Also, I understand there is decent thin crust in some of the connected areas of Cicero that would be worth checking out. You windy city casserole mongers need to come out to NYC and try the fab five:
Patsy's - East Harlem
Difara - Brooklyn
Grimaldi's - Brooklyn
Una Pizza Napoletana - East Village
Lucali's - Brooklyn
DJ Bubbles is correct that world class pizza is simple, pure and spends little time in the oven
therealslimshady at 9:31PM on 06/20/08
i always thought lou malnati's had a good thin crust pizza
sweetpotato at 11:26AM on 06/21/08
Oh Mister Bubbles, you make me giggle. Chuch E Cheese? Really? That's what you think good bar pizza tastes like? I can't fathom a way to response to such a silly argument.
As for comparing high quality thin pizza like Vito & Nick's to NYC, I'd say it's unquestionably better than most because most pizza in New York, like most pizza everywhere is not all that good. As far as my NYC pizza experience, you inaccurately refer to my experience there. I tried far more than Lombardo's and Arturo's (both of which, as you well know, are on many knowledgable NY pizza fans' top 10 lists), I just listed those two as the two best I've had there thus far.
Fear not, Mister Bubbles and others, I will be in New York for five days in mid-July and intend to do a significant amount of pizza tasting while there. Among my stops will be a visit to your boy Mangieri and his toppings-free pies. I expect it will be excellent, though not nearly as good as the best thin pizza I've ever had.
Daniel Zemans at 2:21PM on 06/21/08
@DZ: Good to hear that you will be visiting NYf'ingC this summer. Now if I can get a guarantee that you won't waste your time at pretenders like Lombardi's and Arturo's, we're in bidness. Of course the best Chicago bar pizza is going to be better than most of our street pie - no argument, there - but I think you're going to find that when you put NY's top pies up against V&N, et al, there won't be much to say after that. If you think that Pizzeria Bianco is the best thin crust pie you've ever had then NY will certainly take thin Chi pie to school - our best pizzerias have a lot in common with PB.
I just want one thing from you when you return to Chicago in July, Dan - be honest with yourself. It takes a man with more chutzpah than even the great Mike Ditka to realize when its time to give another city its props. If you put our top 5 pies up against your top 5 thin Chi pies (as close as you can get to apples to apples between NY/Chi), you will have very little left to say other than "Vito and who's?"
Believe dat!
DJ Bubbles at 2:49PM on 06/21/08
Chi thin and NY thin are so dissimilar that such a comparison is foolish and worthless.
Poor Bubbles. How very NY of you, in your need to insist that your style is "better."
Garvey at 11:17PM on 06/21/08
hey bro, it was your man who said pizzeria bianco was the best thin pie he'd ever had. using PB as the gold standard, there's no question that ny's best are much more closely aligned with bianco in terms of style and quality. chris bianco grew up in the bronx, after all. nothing to really argue about, garvey, so throw down another old style after your third italian beef, house a pack of tums, and call it a night.
da bears!
DJ Bubbles at 3:29AM on 06/22/08
That's all fine and good, but you just don't get it. You are a parody of yourself, like many NYers. NYers always insist that their version of every last thing is THE archetype. That's what makes y'all the provincial laughingstock that you are, the butt of all jokes.
"Oh, Botswanan flatbread? Yeah, dey make dat stuff da best down in Queens."
Garvey at 9:14AM on 06/22/08
"even the thin, bar pie served up in the chi is a separate breed than our stuff....i would say it is a different approach to making pizza more than anything, ya dig?" --DJ Bubbles
So sometimes you accept that it's simply a different dish, yet other times you insist on ranking styles as being "superior" and "inferior." Pick a side, man.
I like all kinds of pizzas. Each pizza maker puts his own interpretation into it. I have some pizza joints I like more than others. And I have some styles I like more than others. For example, I just don't dig "California style" pizza. But it is still pizza. And there are probably some here that think an arugula pizza with a beet-green bechemel on a sourdough crust is the best they've ever had. But I don't feel the need to defecate on them, telling them their xit ain't pizza and how what I like is, was, and will always rank higher.
If I had an Old Style right now, I'd gladly drink it. Italian beef is overrated. Tums--don't need 'em.
But something I have pointed out, time and time again, is the small minded NY mentality to feel the absolute need to break out the baseball bats whenever anyone suggests that there is a world outside of NY.
Look, what do you want from Daniel and everyone else? You want us to roll over, stroke you with endless chants of how NY is great, how we all bow down to your supreme greatness, how NY everything is the best and everything else is xit? Should that be the focus of Daniel's reviews--how whatever he reviews is pretty good and all but will never hold a candle to whatever DJ Bubbles likes? Doesn't that sound kinda, um, boring?
Garvey at 9:34AM on 06/22/08
Garv-man, all I want is for you to come to NY, we'll all be pals (for the weekend, after that, the war's back on), and we'll have some great pies. Doesn't get any better than that, old buddy!
Whaddya say?
Listen, I don't want endless chants of how great NY is (I already know that, provincial d*bag that I am), but I do think that a little back-and-forth between NY and Chi never hurt - especially on America's Favorite Pizza Blog.
That said, nobody wants to break out the bats and start wackin em around (well, at least I don't). You've come to the defense of Chicago just as strongly as I rep NY - and that's probably as it should be
DJ Bubbles at 11:00AM on 06/22/08
Garvey and Bubbles - This is outstanding stuff.
I only have a couple of thoughts to add. Because I think that Bianco is the best thin pie I've ever had absolutely does not mean that I'll think NY's best thin is superior to Chicago's best version (though I remain open to the possibility). While there are surely more crusts in New York more similar to Bianco, there are usually four parts to a good pizza - crust, sauce, cheese and toppings - and all four count. Bianco has taken the time to perfect all four and offers a balanced combination. UPN, to use one popular NYC joint, great though it may be, doesn't even offer toppings. I will be stunned if the other three elements are sufficient for me to rank it ahead of Vito & Nick's.
Rest assured, if I find that the best of NYC thin is in fact superior to the best of Chicago, I will freely admit it. While I am perfectly confident that Chicago is a vastly superior town, when NY is better, as it is in delis and public transportation, I am not too proud to say so.
Incidentally, DJ, I am curious about your opinion of Lombardi's. Here, you call it a pretender. But not too long ago, you listed it as the fifth best pie in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Since I'm sure you would not change your opinion just to try to prove a point, I'm wondering what has changed since October 2006.
Daniel Zemans at 11:30AM on 06/22/08
Dan, Lombardi's, in my opinion, has really gone down in quality since my visit in 2006. I've been back several times since then and have been very disappointed which is really unfortunate, because it is America's first pizzeria.
I'm a pizza margherita/plain pie guy all the way, so to me, it is essential that crust, sauce, and cheese (and sometimes, basil and olive oil) are all on point and blend well together. Toppings - I can take them or leave them, they aren't essential on NY pies and can sometimes take away from the balance of a truly great pizza.
DJ Bubbles at 2:04PM on 06/22/08
Interesting comments, Dan and Bubbles. For me, I still think that NY thin and Chi thin are so dissimilar that trying to say one is "better" is silly. It's like comparing a good corned beef on rye to a good hoagie. They're both sandwiches, but the comparison ends there.
Chi thin doesn't try to be NY thin. It is unique. NY thin has enough imitators--mostly bad, I might add.
Garvey at 12:22PM on 06/23/08
Garvey and Dan - as I mentioned back on 6/20/08, all of you casserole mongers really need to get to NYC and try the fab five: Patsy's, DiFara, Grimaldis, UPN and Lucalis. I grew up 1/2 way between Chicago and Detroit and never tried pizza napoletana until recently and I was blown away by the world class simplicity of the NYC artisans - take the challenge and sample the NYC fab five and then get back in this forum and debate NYC vs Chicagoland
therealslimshady at 10:08PM on 06/23/08
But you're completely missing my point, TRSS. It's not a "vs" thing. Can't we all just appreciate different kinds of wonderful pizza and judge them by their own merits, within their own type?
Garvey at 10:27AM on 06/24/08
V&N is a chicago staple serving Chicago's "other style" of pizza. Any pizza head needs to give this place a try when in Chicago and see why the pizza here is so good. between Burts, Pequod's, the deep dish joints and all the places serving Chicago tavern style pizza, the wood burning oven spots, Crust and Piece and the rest im forgetting it is quite a destination pizza eating city if there is one. you could eat a good pizza from a different place in Chicagoland every day of the year. Check out my site for a updated list of the mysterious tavern style.
http://chibbqking.blogspot.com/
KingT at 8:10PM on 09/12/08
Oh my. If I had a dollar for every time someone (well really a new yorker) tried to tell me how NY Pie is superior, I'd be able to eat a great deal more of my favorite slices. But i've had both NY and Chicago pizza. Here's my take if you would care to listen: Vito & Nicks is the best thin crust I have EVER had anywhere in this country!
I've been to Grimaldi's (on the "best of NYC" list) in the last year and I have to say that it WAS a decent pie but it was not the caliber of Vito & Nick's. Even with respect to Chicago pies, Lou Malnati's is just a rung lower and I am a very big fan of their thin crust; delectable as well. Its funny how so many Chicagoan's know LM's but not V&N's; even after being around for over 60 years. That's probably more of a function of an abundance of local alternatives than anything else.
One of the comments regarding the "magic dough" by DJ bubbles suggests he just hasn't ever actually tried V&N. If DJ had then I have no doubt he would agree that there is something undisputably very unique and very special about that "crust". The good news is that when DJ steps out of NYC to expand his pizza horizons, this subtle but significant difference will stand out like a beacon on the shoreline after years of consuming mediocrity. Until then DJ, we'll all be waiting for you at the gates of pizza heaven.
On a personal note, I'm not a big fan of deep dish. There's just too much bread and sauce for my taste. That said my first deep dish was Connie's pizza in the 1970's. It was really very good at the time and not of the tomato soup bowl variety. In fact it was so good that on one particular evening during the Chicago blizzard of '78 there was a waiting list and line out the door, despite the fact that the roads were becoming impassable.
Ahhh, pizza. So many good memories.
I'm so happy someone turned me on to this site. I love the fact that everyone is so passionate about their pie; a beautiful thing despite the disagreements.
lodog222 at 8:35PM on 12/23/09