Every so often, I like to hit the old coal-oven giants in the city to see if they're up or down. For the most part, the old boys do killer pizza, the kind of pies serious sliceheads would be perfectly happy with if they weren't so spoiled by the amazing cornucopia of pizza our town has to offer. But I've found over the years that the consistency and quality of the coal-oven venues varies. So I thought I'd give John's Pizzeria on Bleecker Street a try.
John's often gets slagged off in the comments on Slice and by various members of the pizza cognoscenti. I've always liked it more than others, though, and through a casual observation made by my dining companion last week, I think I've figured out why.
As I was working on the last slice of the pie, my friend Justin, who's from the same Kansas City suburb as I am, offered this: "You know, there's something very familiar about his pizza. Of all the places you've introduced me to here, I think this is the least New York-ish pizza I've had. It's somehow very Midwestern."
"You know, I think you're on to something there," I said.
"Maybe that's why you like it more than the natives. It's a taste of home."
I mentioned this exchange to Ed Levine here at Slice–Serious Eats HQ.
"You know, Ed," I said, "I like John's. It's not great, but there's something familiar about it that resonates with me. The sauce, the type of not-so-great sausage they use. It's sort of comforting."
"You like John's?! Even with the canned sauce? And the aged mozzarella?"
"Canned sauce?"
The John's upskirt, backgrounded by the joint's famously carved up walls. (The booths are just as marked.)
"Yeah. He stopped using freshly made sauce years ago. He gets a canned pizza sauce now. And he stopped using fresh mozzarella from Faicco's Pork Store—just two doors down—around the same time. I don't even think he gets the sausage from Faicco's anymore. I talked to him for the book [Pizza: A Slice of Heaven], and it was like he was almost proud of it."
I could quote the passage on John's from Ed's book, but I'd just dupe what you read above. He did close his thoughts on the original John's on Bleecker with this: "That said, the pizza is still better than you can find at 95 percent of the pizzerias in this country."
Considering that chain pizzerias probably represent 95 percent of the pizzerias in the U.S., Ed's conclusion may be damning the joint with faint praise. But I'd like to think he really was giving props to the place. I still like John's for that familiar taste of home—the heavy application of a slightly sweet, seasoned sauce; the lump sausage that has just a bit of fennel in it, and the regular mozzarella—married to a better-than-average crisp-chewy crust. It's like the best of both the worlds I've known—the 'burbs and the city.
And it probably explains the line of tourists snaking out the door most nights.
John's Pizzeria
278 Bleecker Street, New York NY 10014 (near Jones Street; map)
212-243-1680 johnspizzerianyc.com Pizza Style: New York–Neapolitan Oven Type: Coal-fired
Bonus Photo Outtakes from John's
Here's the whole shebang—all the photos I took at John's on my most recent visit. Stuff you saw above and extra stuff you didn't.
Last time I spoke with Mike Frank, the manager at John's of Bleecker, he gave me this ingredient rundown.
"the Flour is General Mills Gold Medal, Full strength, enriched Bromated.... Crushed plum tomatos.... Cheese in Polly-o Whole milk Mozz....... that's about it.... As for toppings, everything is fresh.... the Sausage comes from Florence meat market up the street on Jones.... the Beef from the Meatballs comes from Ottomanellis........ veggies are all delivered daily...... Coal from Pennsylvania ...... that's realy about it..."
Whats the big whoop about using canned tomatoes? Any respectable chef knows that there is no shame in using perfectly ripened, canned tomatoes anytime outside of August/Sept/October. A restaurant needs to be consistient, after all..
^ err, except that we have two opinions on what kind of tomatos they use.
despite it being inconsistent over the years and often slagged on by some, i still happen to like pizza joints like JOHNS and SAMS in brooklyn, too (the latter also somewhat midwestern style in that the crust is thick). anyway they are among my favorite places to huff an old school meatball/garlic pie.
Despite everyone's supposed beef with canned sauce, the John's pie is still one of the best in the city. I always appreciated it for not being too cheesy. An oasis of mozzy in a sea of sweet sauce is just what I need sometimes.
I don't care what anyone says, my girlfriend and I love John's. It's not fancy-pants pizza, it's just great. Same with Vinny Vincenz, that place is another of my NYC favorites.
I've never been to John's but I can tell just from looking at the picture that it's good. The quality of the crust is 3/4's of a pizza, and the quality of the cheese the other 1/4th. Whether sauce is fresh or canned is inconsequential, provided the pie has been adequately seasoned with oregano and garlic.
Notice the charred quality imparted by the very hot coal fire. People in New England (who like all baked goods to be UNDERbaked) would consider this pizza to be "burned." I would call it, "well done, to perfection"!
This would only be consider very UN-New York if you compare it to the Times Square joints run by non-Italians. John's, along with Lombardi's, etc., is typical of the original "Napolitan" (how Neapolitans pronounce "Neapolitan," in their dialect) New York pizza. I've been to the Midwest (lived in Wisconsin for 7 years) and there is nothing resembling this pizza in the Midwest. Pizza Hut is a perfect representation of Midwestern pizza, with its blonde-looking, colorless crust.
Are you aware the John's has opened a new location just west of the Exchange Place Financial District in Jersey City? I happened upon it yesterday. It's not listed on their website, but it's definitely them. They have the same "No Slices" logo on the sign hanging outside, a coal oven and the menu looks like the Times Square Menu. It's a very nice looking place outside and in, but as folks like to say these days, it is what it is. It's located at 87 Sussex Street.
Paulie Gee: I was not aware. Thanks for the tip. I'll blog this up on the site so it gets wider recognition (not everyone reads comments). Also will dig up that link you sent me a while back about a place you mentioned. I want to blog that, too.
Be kind with the Jersey City location. It's a new oven so you can't judge it as you would a seasoned oven. I tried it a few months back and found it to be so so. When in Jersey City, try La Rustique. It's a wood-fired brick oven that used to be located a block from the new John's but has since moved to 611 Jersey Ave.
@adam I'm sorry I didn't take any photos of the outside. I left my camera in the car and didn't want to go back for it. It's a very attractive place in a relatively quiet spot. I'm sure they are relying on their name recognition for traffic.. It was quiet in there at 3pm, while the restaurants over on Grove street were doing a brisk business.
@scottweiner I had stop s young couple with a baby stroller and asked them if there was any high quality pizza in the area and they told me about John's. I was very surprised. They also told me about La Rustique and said they had liked it better than John's. I forgot about when I drove over that way, but I never spotted it or it would have jogged my memory. I'm gonna head back there soon on a weekend evening and check them out. This time camera in hand. I'll get a few shots of John's too. Outside only. I ain't goin' in.
I've always loved John's on Bleeker Street. I've been there several times. I think they have more combinations than anyone on the planet.
I agree that it would most likely be much better with fresh sauce BUT that being said, I still think that their crust rocks. I love the fact that they don't use a ton of cheese, just like Totonno's in Coney Island.
I was born only a couple of blocks from Totonno's and know good pizza. I've eaten at most of the famous places in NYC (except for 2). I have eaten pizza in every state on the East Coast of U.S. (and in Nova Scotia too) and can say that John's is wonderful. I love the really thin crust, the taste of the sauce that they do use, and the smaller amount of cheese. I also love how many toppings combinations they have. I love reading their menu. It is so much fun. It may be crowded but isn't the whole thing that if a place is crowded than you know it is good? If it was empty, we wouldn't go in, would we? No we wouldn't. Stop dissing John's. It rocks!
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As I was working on the last slice of the pie, my friend Justin, who's from the same Kansas City suburb as I am, offered this: "You know, there's something very familiar about his pizza. Of all the places you've introduced me to here, I think this is the least New York-ish pizza I've had. It's somehow very Midwestern."
13 Comments:
Last time I spoke with Mike Frank, the manager at John's of Bleecker, he gave me this ingredient rundown.
"the Flour is General Mills Gold Medal, Full strength, enriched Bromated.... Crushed plum tomatos.... Cheese in Polly-o Whole milk Mozz....... that's about it.... As for toppings, everything is fresh.... the Sausage comes from Florence meat market up the street on Jones.... the Beef from the Meatballs comes from Ottomanellis........ veggies are all delivered daily...... Coal from Pennsylvania ...... that's realy about it..."
ScottWiener at 12:39PM on 08/18/08
Whats the big whoop about using canned tomatoes? Any respectable chef knows that there is no shame in using perfectly ripened, canned tomatoes anytime outside of August/Sept/October. A restaurant needs to be consistient, after all..
wprice620 at 4:26PM on 08/18/08
I think the distinction here is they are using canned SAUCE, not just canned tomatoes. While canned tomatoes are great, pre-made sauce is disgusting.
simon at 6:02PM on 08/18/08
^ err, except that we have two opinions on what kind of tomatos they use.
despite it being inconsistent over the years and often slagged on by some, i still happen to like pizza joints like JOHNS and SAMS in brooklyn, too (the latter also somewhat midwestern style in that the crust is thick). anyway they are among my favorite places to huff an old school meatball/garlic pie.
mrnyc at 6:12PM on 08/18/08
Despite everyone's supposed beef with canned sauce, the John's pie is still one of the best in the city. I always appreciated it for not being too cheesy. An oasis of mozzy in a sea of sweet sauce is just what I need sometimes.
-The Ubereater
www.ubereater.com
Ubereater at 9:32AM on 08/19/08
I don't care what anyone says, my girlfriend and I love John's. It's not fancy-pants pizza, it's just great. Same with Vinny Vincenz, that place is another of my NYC favorites.
Keith W. at 11:38AM on 08/19/08
Absolutely great pie, better than their Times Square location and I hear there's another one in the UES.
After I saw that video with the rats when they got shut down, I don't know that I want to go back to Bleecker. I still get chills.
gmarceau at 7:37PM on 08/19/08
I've never been to John's but I can tell just from looking at the picture that it's good. The quality of the crust is 3/4's of a pizza, and the quality of the cheese the other 1/4th. Whether sauce is fresh or canned is inconsequential, provided the pie has been adequately seasoned with oregano and garlic.
Notice the charred quality imparted by the very hot coal fire. People in New England (who like all baked goods to be UNDERbaked) would consider this pizza to be "burned." I would call it, "well done, to perfection"!
This would only be consider very UN-New York if you compare it to the Times Square joints run by non-Italians. John's, along with Lombardi's, etc., is typical of the original "Napolitan" (how Neapolitans pronounce "Neapolitan," in their dialect) New York pizza. I've been to the Midwest (lived in Wisconsin for 7 years) and there is nothing resembling this pizza in the Midwest. Pizza Hut is a perfect representation of Midwestern pizza, with its blonde-looking, colorless crust.
JerseyWarren at 9:24AM on 08/25/08
Are you aware the John's has opened a new location just west of the Exchange Place Financial District in Jersey City? I happened upon it yesterday. It's not listed on their website, but it's definitely them. They have the same "No Slices" logo on the sign hanging outside, a coal oven and the menu looks like the Times Square Menu. It's a very nice looking place outside and in, but as folks like to say these days, it is what it is. It's located at 87 Sussex Street.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 9:34AM on 08/25/08
Paulie Gee: I was not aware. Thanks for the tip. I'll blog this up on the site so it gets wider recognition (not everyone reads comments). Also will dig up that link you sent me a while back about a place you mentioned. I want to blog that, too.
Adam Kuban at 9:57AM on 08/25/08
Be kind with the Jersey City location. It's a new oven so you can't judge it as you would a seasoned oven. I tried it a few months back and found it to be so so. When in Jersey City, try La Rustique. It's a wood-fired brick oven that used to be located a block from the new John's but has since moved to 611 Jersey Ave.
ScottWiener at 10:29AM on 08/25/08
@adam I'm sorry I didn't take any photos of the outside. I left my camera in the car and didn't want to go back for it. It's a very attractive place in a relatively quiet spot. I'm sure they are relying on their name recognition for traffic.. It was quiet in there at 3pm, while the restaurants over on Grove street were doing a brisk business.
@scottweiner I had stop s young couple with a baby stroller and asked them if there was any high quality pizza in the area and they told me about John's. I was very surprised. They also told me about La Rustique and said they had liked it better than John's. I forgot about when I drove over that way, but I never spotted it or it would have jogged my memory. I'm gonna head back there soon on a weekend evening and check them out. This time camera in hand. I'll get a few shots of John's too. Outside only. I ain't goin' in.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 11:45AM on 08/25/08
I've always loved John's on Bleeker Street. I've been there several times. I think they have more combinations than anyone on the planet.
I agree that it would most likely be much better with fresh sauce BUT that being said, I still think that their crust rocks. I love the fact that they don't use a ton of cheese, just like Totonno's in Coney Island.
I was born only a couple of blocks from Totonno's and know good pizza. I've eaten at most of the famous places in NYC (except for 2). I have eaten pizza in every state on the East Coast of U.S. (and in Nova Scotia too) and can say that John's is wonderful. I love the really thin crust, the taste of the sauce that they do use, and the smaller amount of cheese. I also love how many toppings combinations they have. I love reading their menu. It is so much fun. It may be crowded but isn't the whole thing that if a place is crowded than you know it is good? If it was empty, we wouldn't go in, would we? No we wouldn't. Stop dissing John's. It rocks!
RisaG at 4:25PM on 08/25/08