What's this got to do with pizza? Well, at one point in his segment he makes the claim that a fancy $10.95 hamburger, made with La Frieda Black Label beef is "cheaper than a pizza."
"If you get a pizza in New York now it's like $20!"
Taking off the burger hat I wear while blogging on A Hamburger Today and putting on my pizza cap, I have to rise to pizza's defense. I don't know about Ozersky, but I can make do with a couple slices for lunch or dinner. Even at the super-premium end ($4 Di Fara slices), that meal comes to $8, almost $3 less than a Black Label burger at City Burger, the venue where Ozersky makes the claim. On average, a large plain pie from a decent pizzeria runs about $14—and you can get 3 or 4 meals out of that, depending on your appetite.
To be fair, Ozersky's words hold true at someplace like Una Pizza Napoletana, where a $21 pie is large enough only for one, but it is an invalid claim at most of the city's less highfalutin' outlets.
two slices is not "a pizza." Nor is three. A standard sized pizza from any NY pizzeria will set you back a good $18 or $20 or more, if you get stuff on it. I'd like to know where these $14 pizzas are -- probably in Brooklyn somewhere, and not in Manhattan, or at places like Dominos, where you're looking at $16 for a plain pie, $2 for a handful of vile floppy pepperonis, and another $2 for tax.
@ Josh I think Adam's point was that nobody eats a whole pie (although that may not apply to you) A large 8 slice pie, even at $20, will feed 2-3 making the cost per person between $7-10.
The cost of a large pie at Abitinos (who also own City Burger) is $15.95.
Adam's point was that other than at upscale places where a $20 pizza is a single serving, a whole pizza is generally enough for a few people, whereas the Black Label is a single (small) serving. IN spite of being hyper-aware of the Black Label burger and working only a block away, I didn't finally try it until seeing your piece on Night Line, Cutlets. Good burger. I had them put half a slice of cheese on it so I could eat half with nothing at all and half with cheese and ketchup. Tasty burger. I am not sure of I'd go so far as saying it is the best burger being made in the City or that the aged beef shows hints of roquefort (as per SE) but it is definitely *one of* the best burgers right now. A little small at that price too.
Another score for Josh, since Big B tried the City Burger. It really is good!
Josh, yeah, if you're going on serving portion -- a pizza lunch (one or two slices) is still cheaper than the Black Label. People don't split a burger into eighths or quarters as they do a whole $20 pizza. Even a whole $20 pizza split into two is $10—95¢ less than a black label burger.
Perhaps Josh is being paid by Pat La Frieda. I've heard how these guys who run the top food blogs operate. Right, Adam?
And just for the record, I have no problem eating one of those Napoletana pies all by myself. I've even been known to devour a whole Totonno's large, but saving a significant portion of each of the crusts for the next day's breakfast.
@paulie: I doubt Josh is being paid by La Frieda. He's just got a fever for the Frieda. Same as I do for Di Fara, etc. If we all started getting accused of being paid off by the pizzaioli and burger people we praised, things could get ugly.
I, too, can finish off a UPN pie—any of the Neapolitan ones. Which is why I conceded the point to Josh on that one. Yes, UPN and its $21 one-person pie is a more expensive meal than a Black Label burger. But that's a rare exception, whereas fancy-pants burgers like the Black Label are easily pricier than a two-slice pizza lunch.
@bessfour If you check some of my other comments, including one recently posted to the Co. article on Eater (http://eater.com/archives/2009/01/co_2.php) you'll see that I was simply serving up a tongue and cheek sandwich (I'm a big fan of guanciale) in light of a recent accusation regarding Adam's relationship with Jim Lahey that was plastered on every Co. item in sight. I doubt you'll find a more staunch defender of Slice's integrity than me. Thanks for joining in.
can i ask an OT question here? why do people like UPN? i took some friends there a few months ago, and was seriously underwhelmed. the pizza was salty, chewy, and bland.
I'd like to defend Josh here. Yes, you can get a $14 whole pie big enough to feed 2-3 people if you look around for it, but you're not just talking about any pizza here.
A $10.95 black label burger is a top-of-the-line burger, so it's only fair to compare it to top-of-the-line pizzas, such as you'd get UPN, in which case Josh's claim holds true. Sure, there's a place near where I grew up in harlem that sells quarter pies for $2.00, but it's like comparing chicken liver to foie gras. If you want to compare Ray's $14 pies to burgers, then you have to compare it to a similar quality burger, which will be correspondingly cheaper.
Wait a second- am I missing something here? The Black Label burger is delicious and high class- true- but I can assure you a whole meal it does not make. You'll need fries and a drink with that, bringing your total closer to $18 after tax. And that doesn't even include cheese or bacon on the burger!
I think we can all cede the point, however, that the cost of a black label burger is, if not comparable to a large pie, less than many disposable, crappy NY food experiences. Let's not say a pizza. Let's say it's less than a club sandwich at a diner, or a fried chicken meal at the port authority, or a club sandwich at TGI Fridays or whatever. And it's much less than any comparable elite experience, i.e. steak at luger, pizza at UPN, bbq at Hill Co., and etc.
I agree with Josh in this instance. Pizza in NY has quietly and stealthily creeped its way out of the "cheap and satisfying" realm, to rather boldly nudge itself into the world of "kind of expensive and often disappointing (if you're not paying attention" world. I'm not saying there isn't great pie to be had in the city, and with true value involved at that, but generally speaking, a large pie at the city's most respectable pizzeria's is going run you at least $20 bucks.
So all that being said, a $10.95 burger that leaves you filled, smiling, and ready to relax packs far more value than 8 slices of a garlic pie that you ate with your eyes closed.
And with THAT said, I need to get to City Burgers stat to check it out.
Also, I was recently reminded of this pizza predicament last weekend when I got a sausage pie at Luzzo's in the East Village. We had a large pie, and a salad to split, and it was $40 bucks. No drinks, no nothing.
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17 Comments:
two slices is not "a pizza." Nor is three. A standard sized pizza from any NY pizzeria will set you back a good $18 or $20 or more, if you get stuff on it. I'd like to know where these $14 pizzas are -- probably in Brooklyn somewhere, and not in Manhattan, or at places like Dominos, where you're looking at $16 for a plain pie, $2 for a handful of vile floppy pepperonis, and another $2 for tax.
jozersky at 9:55AM on 01/10/09
@ Josh I think Adam's point was that nobody eats a whole pie (although that may not apply to you) A large 8 slice pie, even at $20, will feed 2-3 making the cost per person between $7-10.
The cost of a large pie at Abitinos (who also own City Burger) is $15.95.
A pie at Ray's on Prince is $14.
Nick Solares at 12:22PM on 01/10/09
Adam's point was that other than at upscale places where a $20 pizza is a single serving, a whole pizza is generally enough for a few people, whereas the Black Label is a single (small) serving. IN spite of being hyper-aware of the Black Label burger and working only a block away, I didn't finally try it until seeing your piece on Night Line, Cutlets. Good burger. I had them put half a slice of cheese on it so I could eat half with nothing at all and half with cheese and ketchup. Tasty burger. I am not sure of I'd go so far as saying it is the best burger being made in the City or that the aged beef shows hints of roquefort (as per SE) but it is definitely *one of* the best burgers right now. A little small at that price too.
Big B at 12:25PM on 01/10/09
Another score for Josh, since Big B tried the City Burger. It really is good!
Josh, yeah, if you're going on serving portion -- a pizza lunch (one or two slices) is still cheaper than the Black Label. People don't split a burger into eighths or quarters as they do a whole $20 pizza. Even a whole $20 pizza split into two is $10—95¢ less than a black label burger.
Adam Kuban at 1:40PM on 01/10/09
Perhaps Josh is being paid by Pat La Frieda. I've heard how these guys who run the top food blogs operate. Right, Adam?
And just for the record, I have no problem eating one of those Napoletana pies all by myself. I've even been known to devour a whole Totonno's large, but saving a significant portion of each of the crusts for the next day's breakfast.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 1:51PM on 01/10/09
@paulie: I doubt Josh is being paid by La Frieda. He's just got a fever for the Frieda. Same as I do for Di Fara, etc. If we all started getting accused of being paid off by the pizzaioli and burger people we praised, things could get ugly.
I, too, can finish off a UPN pie—any of the Neapolitan ones. Which is why I conceded the point to Josh on that one. Yes, UPN and its $21 one-person pie is a more expensive meal than a Black Label burger. But that's a rare exception, whereas fancy-pants burgers like the Black Label are easily pricier than a two-slice pizza lunch.
Adam Kuban at 3:59PM on 01/10/09
Below the belt, Paulie Gee.
I guess you think Bruni, Richman, Restaurant Girl, Platt and all the other the other critics are getting paid off, too.
bessfour at 10:49AM on 01/11/09
@bessfour If you check some of my other comments, including one recently posted to the Co. article on Eater (http://eater.com/archives/2009/01/co_2.php) you'll see that I was simply serving up a tongue and cheek sandwich (I'm a big fan of guanciale) in light of a recent accusation regarding Adam's relationship with Jim Lahey that was plastered on every Co. item in sight. I doubt you'll find a more staunch defender of Slice's integrity than me. Thanks for joining in.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 11:55AM on 01/11/09
can i ask an OT question here? why do people like UPN? i took some friends there a few months ago, and was seriously underwhelmed. the pizza was salty, chewy, and bland.
cybercita at 5:38PM on 01/11/09
@cybercita: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2008/09/dear-slice-una-pizza-napoletana-sucks.html !!!
Adam Kuban at 7:20PM on 01/11/09
@Adam
I'd like to defend Josh here. Yes, you can get a $14 whole pie big enough to feed 2-3 people if you look around for it, but you're not just talking about any pizza here.
A $10.95 black label burger is a top-of-the-line burger, so it's only fair to compare it to top-of-the-line pizzas, such as you'd get UPN, in which case Josh's claim holds true. Sure, there's a place near where I grew up in harlem that sells quarter pies for $2.00, but it's like comparing chicken liver to foie gras. If you want to compare Ray's $14 pies to burgers, then you have to compare it to a similar quality burger, which will be correspondingly cheaper.
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 9:52AM on 01/12/09
Wait a second- am I missing something here? The Black Label burger is delicious and high class- true- but I can assure you a whole meal it does not make. You'll need fries and a drink with that, bringing your total closer to $18 after tax. And that doesn't even include cheese or bacon on the burger!
LikesToEatJunk at 12:22PM on 01/12/09
I think we can all cede the point, however, that the cost of a black label burger is, if not comparable to a large pie, less than many disposable, crappy NY food experiences. Let's not say a pizza. Let's say it's less than a club sandwich at a diner, or a fried chicken meal at the port authority, or a club sandwich at TGI Fridays or whatever. And it's much less than any comparable elite experience, i.e. steak at luger, pizza at UPN, bbq at Hill Co., and etc.
jozersky at 1:55PM on 01/12/09
When you put it that way, GoodEaterKenji, then, yes, I will give Josh the win.
Adam Kuban at 2:04PM on 01/12/09
I agree with Josh in this instance. Pizza in NY has quietly and stealthily creeped its way out of the "cheap and satisfying" realm, to rather boldly nudge itself into the world of "kind of expensive and often disappointing (if you're not paying attention" world. I'm not saying there isn't great pie to be had in the city, and with true value involved at that, but generally speaking, a large pie at the city's most respectable pizzeria's is going run you at least $20 bucks.
So all that being said, a $10.95 burger that leaves you filled, smiling, and ready to relax packs far more value than 8 slices of a garlic pie that you ate with your eyes closed.
And with THAT said, I need to get to City Burgers stat to check it out.
Also, I was recently reminded of this pizza predicament last weekend when I got a sausage pie at Luzzo's in the East Village. We had a large pie, and a salad to split, and it was $40 bucks. No drinks, no nothing.
The Ubereater
www.ubereater.com
Ubereater at 5:27PM on 01/12/09
@ubereater: Your first mistake was going to Luzzo's. I've never found the pizza there to be that satisfying.
Adam Kuban at 5:30PM on 01/12/09
The Port Authority has fried chicken?
greenolivemedia at 6:27PM on 01/13/09