An interesting story from ABC News. Ken Karpman used to earn $750,000 a year as an institutional equities trader and then started his own hedge fund. After the economic crash, he's a pizza delivery driver.
"This whole progression down, it's amazing how many things you say, 'I can't do' and a week later you say, 'Yeah, I could do that,'" he said. "I'm not going to make a career out of this but, until I get something that pays more, this is what I'll do to keep food on the table."
It's a bit reminiscent of Michael Gates Gill, the former ad exec who lost a $160K job and found himself sweeping up at Starbucks for $10 an hour. If you'll recall, Gill wrote a book about his experience, How Starbucks Saved My Life, which was then optioned for a movie by Tom Hanks.
wow... incredible, but at the same time... how can you be making 750K a year and not be saving and investing for bad times? Even with the least aggressive investments you should be able to live off of that money for quite some time... I understand the economy has tanked, but with the irresponsibility (both in the investments and the savings) that I'm assuming must have occurred, I most certainly do not feel bad for him or his family, he took a big risk and lost ...
Not to mention that he's depriving trombone players the stereotypical day gig. On the other hand, the trombonists will get better gas mileage without the sign on the roof of their cars...
Actually, he saved about 500K and spent it all in trying to start up his own hedge fund. When it failed, he spent about two years trying to find a job until finally ending up in this position.
Yea, I actually saw the program last night and I *do* feel bad for him and his family.
Spare me. I'm sure ABC just stumbled over him at the pizza place too, and wanted to do a story on him. I have no doubt he's been working the publicity angle since the day he started slinging pies.
I have zero sympathy for any of these banking people. Frankly I have more compassion for the college student that would have had that pizza job if this jerk hadn't taken it.
And - not to get off on a rant here - I notice he's still sending his kids to private school that costs 15k a year EACH - and letting someone else pick up the bill. Because keeping two privileged toddlers away from the rabble in a public school is certainly a worthy cause.
Closets full of clothes and handbags? Jet-ski in the garage next to the Mercedes? I have very little sympathy for folks who hit up the government (they're on food stamps) before they even consider freakin' Craigslist. They have kids, so of course they gotta eat, and I'm not against food stamps etc., but what's sad is not just the hedge-fund to pizza-delivery trajectory, but the fact that this man delivers pizza in a *Mercedes* while his family is on food stamps.
@Munkee... Im at a loss trying to figure out how you can feel bad for him... I understand that he took all of his savings and tried to start a hedge fund... Was 750K a year not enough for him and his family? And also how greedy do you have to be to risk EVERYTHING YOU HAVE including your family to try and make more $$$? He rolled the dice using his family and savings as chips... he lost... And I agree they are on food stamps but they still have all these toys that they could get rid of?
You're making it seem like hes making people pay his kid's tuition bill. He's not. Personally, if one of my friends had the heart to donate money for my kid's tuition bills, I'd take it.
gambler72,
He wanted to start his own business. I don't see anything wrong with that. Lots of people want to be entrepreneurs and it is a risky. When he figured it wouldn't work out, he went out and tried to find a job. I don't understand how it's different from anyone else. I'm not sure where you got the notion he "risked everything he had". Was it when he spent some of it on starting his business or was it when he spent it as emergency funds when he didn't have a job?
Also, they *are* getting rid of most of their property as they plan to move to a smaller apartment.
look, even if he did live "rent free" for two years he's still technically liable on the mortgage. Maybe he never pays it, but it's not like he's getting off scott free.
take this story as a lesson we all can learn from.
I had a business fail. I had a business partner walk away from his portion of the financial obligation and I cashed out every penny available to me, took my kids out of private school and changed the way I live to pay off the debt. He's not technically liable for the mortgage if he's being foreclosed upon, which according to the story, he is. It will screw up his credit for the next decade, but he's not liable to pay it.
Adam, I'm not really sure why this article was posted on Serious Eats, unless it was posted just to inspire these kinds of silly comments so we could all vent about the economy. This man is suffering from the same economic crisis as everyone, but because he was in a high-salary career that involved the words "hedge fund", we apparently MUST berate him and hope he and his family dissolve into bankruptcy and misery. Does anyone really warrant those ill-wishes? "Banker" does not necessarily equal "evil scum", and try to think of the family behind the scenes as well. I have respect for the fact that he didn't worry about his pride and took the first job he could get in order to sustain the health of his family. It would be nice if we could address this story with empathy, realizing that although he may have been high-and-mighty only months ago, he is now in the same boat as the rest of us. Chill.
I think it's on "Slice" because he is now a pizza delivery driver. And I think people are angry because of the way the story is written - his wife still has closets full of clothes and jet ski's and many items that might have been sold to help with their new lifestyle - maybe the people donating the money to the private school should have paid it towards the unpaid mortgage instead. I would think having a roof over your head and consistency in where the children living would be more important to their education than private school. Just my opinion. The story certainly doesn't show them in a very good light.
@teenagefoodie: It's on Slice, yes, as floridayaya says, because it's got a pizza angle. I did think it was interesting. I don't think all bankers are scum; in fact, I have a handful of friends who are/were in banking—in various trading and nontrading capacities—who were affected by the craziness in that industry through no fault of their own.
I used to post much more of these marginally pizza-related stories (delivery drivers getting robbed, stupid pizza-related crimes) but generally find them a bit boring these days. There are so many delivery robberies that I could do daily roundup of them, and somehow pizza seems to attract the very dumbest criminals.
So I usually stay away from the more marginal pizza stories, but this one piqued my interest because it did seem so much like the Michael Gates Gill story—an "oh, how the mighty have fallen" thing.
I didn't think it would generate this much rancor, but people *are* angry, and this guy put his story out there, so I don't feel bad in reblogging it here. The one thing that did give me pause before posting it is the whole way the job of pizza delivery driver is held up as a sort of bottom rung. One of the things I've tried to mind over the years of editing Slice (and A Hamburger Today) is giving people in the industry respect, no matter what job they're doing. Maligning delivery drivers (and fast food workers) is too easy, and I was afraid this post would further that. I don't think it does, and nobody here has yet dissed pizza workers, which is a relief.
Wow. Seriously, Jerzee? If you don't even have pizza delivery coverage, do you have any pizza options—besides making your own? (Often the best option, anyway.) Your situation kind of reminds me of the Verizon "no coverage zone" commercials ;)
Thanks for the story. I appreciate it for what it is, that change happens. Anyone on this board can come upon "tragedy" (subjective) and lose their jobs tomorrow, fail a final exam and lose their scholarship, get hit by a car and become paralyzed from the neck down, fall and hit their had and have seizures for the rest of their lives.
What would YOU do? Feel sorry for yourself? If so, for how long? Risk it all? Go on a shooting rampage? Prefer to stay unemployed for the perfect job opportunity? If so, at what expense? Commit suicide?
So many people think "bankers hours" and are really angry against bankers. My father was honest and hard working. Bankers hours for an executive was from 5 a.m. - 5 p.m., sometimes later, on weekdays, and he would go in on Saturdays too. There were years before this current crisis that banks were merging, our economy was tumbling, and we were not sure if he would have a job - fortunately, nothing bad every happened. He was more conservative w/ his $$ but still invested, again fortunately, in companies that are stable and some have become extremely successful. Some people play it safe, some people have it in them to risk it all.
My uncle poured gasoline over himself and set himself aflame when he lost everything during WWII. The US government took my family's assets and distributed it to the people.
My classmate was shot and killed when some guy came in to her workplace and went on a shooting rampage after losing his job.
Some people live a certain lifestyle which can be expensive to maintain. Unless you've been around this type of situation, you'll never know. All people see is the final paycheck $$ amount, but there are taxes, charities you're "forced" to a contribute to, lifestyle to maintain with others in your league, etc. Of course, in my family, money was always well spent, but I grew up and worked with people who lived in this sort of bubble and have seen the effects when things go south.
I don't feel resentment nor pity for them. There are many ways to go about failures in life. This is a chapter of a story in someone's life.
But, clothes and personal effects are things they won't take away from you if you file bankruptcy.
All your finances are subject to being taken away if your trading goes bad. So it's difficult if not impossible to "put something away" for a rainy day.
I don't understand how he can still keep sending his kids to a private school, though.
And, no, I don't of any traders who work long hours. Basically, they work when the market is open, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Eastern time. So, yeah, it is "banker's hours"
@Cassaendra--what happened to your uncle was dreadful, and inflicted upon him because of racism and evil.
What took away his life was a genuine tsunami of prejudice.
But what is so outrageous about the way these Wall Street individuals have behaved today is that the risks they took hurt us ALL--NOT just themselves, that is why people are so angry. This man was part of the culture where moving money in the search of quick profits off of others, rather than doing something good with business, was the rule. It was money on paper, nothing more. And we are all suffering. The issue is not that he was RICH, but HOW he made his money, and it is not that all bankers are bad, but the way this type of banking was done. Not all bankers are bad, but the bankers involved in the crisis, with their speculation, hurt so many people...
And there is no responsibility--they talk about the 'tsunami' of the financial crisis, when it was of their own making.
Adam, when I saw this post I did think it was relevant, because like you said, sometimes people look down on individuals who work with their hands. When I worked 'menial' jobs I was amazed by how I was treated by customers.
However, the true relevance is driving a pizza delivery truck or making pizza is far more honest and 'real' than managing a hedge fund, and losing your fortune and the fortune of others with unacceptably risky speculation. Maybe, in a way, he is moving up in the world--or at least, hurting less people than most of the bankers involved in the crisis.
i was a little pissed to hear that they were getting foodstamps.. does the wife work? did they mention that.. or would her manicare be ruined. I agree with the reader who mentioned that a college kid lost this job so this person can live in a huge house and NOT PAY MORTGAGE?// isnt that why were are in this financial institution.. what ever happend to living within your means..DID You need to go to the country club? Did you need a huge house.. greedy people annoy me..
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An interesting story from ABC News. Ken Karpman used to earn $750,000 a year as an institutional equities trader and then started his own hedge fund. After the economic crash, he's a pizza delivery driver.
24 Comments:
wow... incredible, but at the same time... how can you be making 750K a year and not be saving and investing for bad times? Even with the least aggressive investments you should be able to live off of that money for quite some time... I understand the economy has tanked, but with the irresponsibility (both in the investments and the savings) that I'm assuming must have occurred, I most certainly do not feel bad for him or his family, he took a big risk and lost ...
gambler72 at 12:48PM on 03/21/09
Not to mention that he's depriving trombone players the stereotypical day gig. On the other hand, the trombonists will get better gas mileage without the sign on the roof of their cars...
WaltTrombone at 1:32PM on 03/21/09
Actually, he saved about 500K and spent it all in trying to start up his own hedge fund. When it failed, he spent about two years trying to find a job until finally ending up in this position.
Yea, I actually saw the program last night and I *do* feel bad for him and his family.
munkee at 2:06PM on 03/21/09
Spare me. I'm sure ABC just stumbled over him at the pizza place too, and wanted to do a story on him. I have no doubt he's been working the publicity angle since the day he started slinging pies.
I have zero sympathy for any of these banking people. Frankly I have more compassion for the college student that would have had that pizza job if this jerk hadn't taken it.
traceyB at 2:50PM on 03/21/09
And - not to get off on a rant here - I notice he's still sending his kids to private school that costs 15k a year EACH - and letting someone else pick up the bill. Because keeping two privileged toddlers away from the rabble in a public school is certainly a worthy cause.
What a jackhole.
traceyB at 2:55PM on 03/21/09
Closets full of clothes and handbags? Jet-ski in the garage next to the Mercedes? I have very little sympathy for folks who hit up the government (they're on food stamps) before they even consider freakin' Craigslist. They have kids, so of course they gotta eat, and I'm not against food stamps etc., but what's sad is not just the hedge-fund to pizza-delivery trajectory, but the fact that this man delivers pizza in a *Mercedes* while his family is on food stamps.
renzata at 3:01PM on 03/21/09
@Munkee... Im at a loss trying to figure out how you can feel bad for him... I understand that he took all of his savings and tried to start a hedge fund... Was 750K a year not enough for him and his family? And also how greedy do you have to be to risk EVERYTHING YOU HAVE including your family to try and make more $$$? He rolled the dice using his family and savings as chips... he lost... And I agree they are on food stamps but they still have all these toys that they could get rid of?
gambler72 at 3:36PM on 03/21/09
traceyB,
You're making it seem like hes making people pay his kid's tuition bill. He's not. Personally, if one of my friends had the heart to donate money for my kid's tuition bills, I'd take it.
gambler72,
He wanted to start his own business. I don't see anything wrong with that. Lots of people want to be entrepreneurs and it is a risky. When he figured it wouldn't work out, he went out and tried to find a job. I don't understand how it's different from anyone else. I'm not sure where you got the notion he "risked everything he had". Was it when he spent some of it on starting his business or was it when he spent it as emergency funds when he didn't have a job?
Also, they *are* getting rid of most of their property as they plan to move to a smaller apartment.
munkee at 4:45PM on 03/21/09
They haven't paid their mortgage in two years, according to the segment. Two years. I wish I could live mortgage or rent free for two years as well.
maered at 7:55PM on 03/21/09
More I found my soul on the way down stories. Cry me a river. If I want to read bullshit like this I would pick up a Hemingway novel. Poor poor Ernie.
JerzeeTomato at 8:02PM on 03/21/09
look, even if he did live "rent free" for two years he's still technically liable on the mortgage. Maybe he never pays it, but it's not like he's getting off scott free.
take this story as a lesson we all can learn from.
alktraz at 9:35PM on 03/21/09
I had a business fail. I had a business partner walk away from his portion of the financial obligation and I cashed out every penny available to me, took my kids out of private school and changed the way I live to pay off the debt. He's not technically liable for the mortgage if he's being foreclosed upon, which according to the story, he is. It will screw up his credit for the next decade, but he's not liable to pay it.
I've already learned my lesson. But thanks.
maered at 10:11PM on 03/21/09
Jerzee - Well said, as always.
arm1970 at 7:13AM on 03/22/09
Adam, I'm not really sure why this article was posted on Serious Eats, unless it was posted just to inspire these kinds of silly comments so we could all vent about the economy. This man is suffering from the same economic crisis as everyone, but because he was in a high-salary career that involved the words "hedge fund", we apparently MUST berate him and hope he and his family dissolve into bankruptcy and misery. Does anyone really warrant those ill-wishes? "Banker" does not necessarily equal "evil scum", and try to think of the family behind the scenes as well. I have respect for the fact that he didn't worry about his pride and took the first job he could get in order to sustain the health of his family. It would be nice if we could address this story with empathy, realizing that although he may have been high-and-mighty only months ago, he is now in the same boat as the rest of us. Chill.
teenagefoodie at 8:36AM on 03/22/09
I think it's on "Slice" because he is now a pizza delivery driver. And I think people are angry because of the way the story is written - his wife still has closets full of clothes and jet ski's and many items that might have been sold to help with their new lifestyle - maybe the people donating the money to the private school should have paid it towards the unpaid mortgage instead. I would think having a roof over your head and consistency in where the children living would be more important to their education than private school. Just my opinion. The story certainly doesn't show them in a very good light.
floridayaya at 10:30AM on 03/22/09
@teenagefoodie: It's on Slice, yes, as floridayaya says, because it's got a pizza angle. I did think it was interesting. I don't think all bankers are scum; in fact, I have a handful of friends who are/were in banking—in various trading and nontrading capacities—who were affected by the craziness in that industry through no fault of their own.
I used to post much more of these marginally pizza-related stories (delivery drivers getting robbed, stupid pizza-related crimes) but generally find them a bit boring these days. There are so many delivery robberies that I could do daily roundup of them, and somehow pizza seems to attract the very dumbest criminals.
So I usually stay away from the more marginal pizza stories, but this one piqued my interest because it did seem so much like the Michael Gates Gill story—an "oh, how the mighty have fallen" thing.
I didn't think it would generate this much rancor, but people *are* angry, and this guy put his story out there, so I don't feel bad in reblogging it here. The one thing that did give me pause before posting it is the whole way the job of pizza delivery driver is held up as a sort of bottom rung. One of the things I've tried to mind over the years of editing Slice (and A Hamburger Today) is giving people in the industry respect, no matter what job they're doing. Maligning delivery drivers (and fast food workers) is too easy, and I was afraid this post would further that. I don't think it does, and nobody here has yet dissed pizza workers, which is a relief.
Adam Kuban at 1:43PM on 03/22/09
We have no pizza delivery here where I live. No food gets delivered. So I have great respect for anyone delivering anything.
JerzeeTomato at 1:53PM on 03/22/09
Wow. Seriously, Jerzee? If you don't even have pizza delivery coverage, do you have any pizza options—besides making your own? (Often the best option, anyway.) Your situation kind of reminds me of the Verizon "no coverage zone" commercials ;)
Adam Kuban at 1:56PM on 03/22/09
Thanks for the story. I appreciate it for what it is, that change happens. Anyone on this board can come upon "tragedy" (subjective) and lose their jobs tomorrow, fail a final exam and lose their scholarship, get hit by a car and become paralyzed from the neck down, fall and hit their had and have seizures for the rest of their lives.
What would YOU do? Feel sorry for yourself? If so, for how long? Risk it all? Go on a shooting rampage? Prefer to stay unemployed for the perfect job opportunity? If so, at what expense? Commit suicide?
So many people think "bankers hours" and are really angry against bankers. My father was honest and hard working. Bankers hours for an executive was from 5 a.m. - 5 p.m., sometimes later, on weekdays, and he would go in on Saturdays too. There were years before this current crisis that banks were merging, our economy was tumbling, and we were not sure if he would have a job - fortunately, nothing bad every happened. He was more conservative w/ his $$ but still invested, again fortunately, in companies that are stable and some have become extremely successful. Some people play it safe, some people have it in them to risk it all.
My uncle poured gasoline over himself and set himself aflame when he lost everything during WWII. The US government took my family's assets and distributed it to the people.
My classmate was shot and killed when some guy came in to her workplace and went on a shooting rampage after losing his job.
Some people live a certain lifestyle which can be expensive to maintain. Unless you've been around this type of situation, you'll never know. All people see is the final paycheck $$ amount, but there are taxes, charities you're "forced" to a contribute to, lifestyle to maintain with others in your league, etc. Of course, in my family, money was always well spent, but I grew up and worked with people who lived in this sort of bubble and have seen the effects when things go south.
I don't feel resentment nor pity for them. There are many ways to go about failures in life. This is a chapter of a story in someone's life.
Cassaendra at 2:18PM on 03/22/09
Look, I don't feel bad for this guy at all.
But, clothes and personal effects are things they won't take away from you if you file bankruptcy.
All your finances are subject to being taken away if your trading goes bad. So it's difficult if not impossible to "put something away" for a rainy day.
I don't understand how he can still keep sending his kids to a private school, though.
And, no, I don't of any traders who work long hours. Basically, they work when the market is open, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Eastern time. So, yeah, it is "banker's hours"
Mooner at 8:29PM on 03/22/09
@Cassaendra--what happened to your uncle was dreadful, and inflicted upon him because of racism and evil.
What took away his life was a genuine tsunami of prejudice.
But what is so outrageous about the way these Wall Street individuals have behaved today is that the risks they took hurt us ALL--NOT just themselves, that is why people are so angry. This man was part of the culture where moving money in the search of quick profits off of others, rather than doing something good with business, was the rule. It was money on paper, nothing more. And we are all suffering. The issue is not that he was RICH, but HOW he made his money, and it is not that all bankers are bad, but the way this type of banking was done. Not all bankers are bad, but the bankers involved in the crisis, with their speculation, hurt so many people...
And there is no responsibility--they talk about the 'tsunami' of the financial crisis, when it was of their own making.
Adam, when I saw this post I did think it was relevant, because like you said, sometimes people look down on individuals who work with their hands. When I worked 'menial' jobs I was amazed by how I was treated by customers.
However, the true relevance is driving a pizza delivery truck or making pizza is far more honest and 'real' than managing a hedge fund, and losing your fortune and the fortune of others with unacceptably risky speculation. Maybe, in a way, he is moving up in the world--or at least, hurting less people than most of the bankers involved in the crisis.
HeartofGlass at 5:43AM on 03/23/09
The guy ran a hedge fund, made 750k a year, and has no savings? Sounds like he now has a job that he's actually qualified for.
bobbob at 10:17AM on 03/23/09
$750K/year and no savings? No wonder he's out of work. He's an idiot.
Truff at 12:56PM on 03/23/09
i was a little pissed to hear that they were getting foodstamps.. does the wife work? did they mention that.. or would her manicare be ruined. I agree with the reader who mentioned that a college kid lost this job so this person can live in a huge house and NOT PAY MORTGAGE?// isnt that why were are in this financial institution.. what ever happend to living within your means..DID You need to go to the country club? Did you need a huge house.. greedy people annoy me..
tigger71 at 11:06PM on 03/23/09