Not everybody follows the comments on Slice as closely as some of us do. For those slackers, we occasionally highlight a really good piece of intel that might otherwise go overlooked. Today, some Portland-area wisdom from Extramsg, who blogs at Extramsg.com. —The Mgmt.
I'd really be interested to see the 109 pizza joints he went to. It does appear the NW got snubbed.
IMO, you get to a certain level of quality and it becomes a question of palate. But prior to that, there are a lot of relatively objective factors that can be referenced along with traditional standards. There's an established language around pizza and some agreement within styles about what makes a good pizza. It's not just up to one man's opinion.
So it seems right that there should be some diversity unless he just wants to call it "Alan Richman's Favorite Pizzas". But, of course, that doesn't sell magazines like "the best in the USA" does.
We currently have 5 strong contenders in the Portland area: Apizza Scholls, Nostrana, Ken's Artisan, Al Forno Ferruzza, and Tastebud. If you extend down to Salem (45 minutes away), there's also a place that does an excellent New Haven style pie. The place is just called Apizza. All of these places use top quality ingredients and hot ovens. They all use long ferments for their doughs. Two of them have all wood ovens. Two of them make their own cheese (one makes a ricotta for calzones, the other mozzarella). I think three or more make their own salumi/charcuterie.
Several of the owners were bread bakers before opening their pizza shops. These are classic pies with slightly varying styles, all falling in the Neapolitan, New York Neapolitan, and New Haven range, probably. But they're all just fricking good.
Admittedly, the offerings get thin after this with rather standard-issue stuff, though at least we have a decent number of places making actual pizza rather than just the chains.
But Portland should be on any pizza lover's radar and I have to wonder if Richman came here at all.
There are still a lot of places I'd like to hit. I was talking to a friend today who called to ask me questions about improving efficiency at Great Lake. Sounds like they really have a product they care about and I'm eager to get back to Chicago to try it. I still haven't hit Bianco. And I'm going to Mozza in July.
But I've been to a lot of the best around the country and Portland holds its own really, really well. I'd be surprised if there is any city in the US, except maybe NY, where the craft of pizza is being renewed as strongly -- ie, places that are only a couple years old as opposed to 100 years old. Is there any place that defines the next generation of honest pizzerias better than Portland? Prove it.
"But Portland should be on any pizza lover's radar and I have to wonder if Richman came here at all."
He didn't come to Portland. He flat-out says in his idiotic article that he only visited 10 cities, and those 10 cities became his "10 Best Pizza Cities in the U.S." list. Nothing from Portland. Nothing from Seattle. So infuriating.
Portland's Apizza Scholls and ESPECIALLY Ken's Artisan Pizza deserve to be on any list depicting the best pizza in this country. Mozza's easily the best pizza I've eaten in L.A., but apparently Mr. Richman thinks the mediocre Tomato Pie is better. I happen to think he's wrong. This list is all kinds of wrong.
But yeah...going to only 10 cities and then declaring those 10 the greatest pizza cities in America, even when Phoenix has but a single great pizza joint? Laughable. No, it's more than that. It's pathetic.
Wow. I feel special. Makes me want to blow more hot air in the future. ;-)
btw, I added another comment noting Firehouse as well in that post. They use a wood oven and do a really nice job and remind me a lot of A16. The bread comes out less crispy, and more soft, but still mottled with char and great ingredients on top in balance.
If someone from Slice ever wants to come out here, I will gladly tour you around and pay for all your pizza meals.
Most are in Southeast. It's more residential than commercial. Portland's not that big, though. The Jupiter, kind of a hipster hotel, would probably be the closest, or something in the Lloyd Center/Irvington area. But just staying downtown would be fine. You could stay at the Ace, more of an upscale hipster hotel, and be above my restaurant, if you wanted. Or try The Nines, a new boutique hotel that has some deals going right now. Or do what I would do: Priceline it.
Approximate Locations:
Apizza Scholls - SE Hawthorne & 47th
Ken's Artisan - SE Ankeny & 28th
Nostrana - SE Belmont & 14th
Al Forno Ferruzza - NE Alberta & 27th
Firehouse - NE Dekum & 7th
Tastebud - SE Powell & McLaughlin
Apizza - Stayton, Oregon
Portland blocks are very small. To give you an idea, my restaurant is at SW 11th & Stark, across the river from the eastside, and yet to Apizza Scholls, about 60 blocks east and 15 blocks south -- 75 blocks total -- is only 3.5 miles away. My house is further by 5 minutes in a car and I get to work in 15 minutes or less.
I agree completely, I'm opening a pizzeria in Seattle and I'm from the new york area, I've been to mozza and Bianco and pretty much everywhere on the east coast. Portland is definitely one of the major pizza cities in the country. Ken's especially is surely in my top 3 or 4 in the country. I'm always surprised at how little attention it gets. Thanks for bringing Portland into the mix.
Hey delancey in Seattle, heres a heads up on something you might be interested in...I guess there are several VPN certified pizzerias in seattle and there willl be a Vpn sponsored pizza convention the week of june 23-30....in Seattle..You may want to check it out.
@WikiAdam: Just in case Delanceyseattle doesn't come back 'round these parts, his pizzeria will be called Delancey. He's opening it with his wife, Molly Wizenberg, who's a pretty well-known foodblogger—Orangette. She's got several posts about the place, but this one should get you started.
I live in Portland, and in terms of quantity it definitely can't compete with places like Detroit, Chicago, New York, etc. It's just too small, and the focus here is (unfortunately) on seafood. But we're slowly gaining ground. The good places here are better than the best I've had in much larger cities. Like L.A., for example. Huge. Horrible pizza scene.
Now, as for Chicago-style pizza, I'm glad you think so highly of it. I really enjoy it too, but they're almost like apples and oranges with me, they're so different. I enjoy them both for what they are, but when I say "great pizza places" I personally am referring to NY-style, not Chicago.
@Delancey:
Really looking forward to trying your place out. Keep us posted on when you open your doors!
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19 Comments:
"But Portland should be on any pizza lover's radar and I have to wonder if Richman came here at all."
He didn't come to Portland. He flat-out says in his idiotic article that he only visited 10 cities, and those 10 cities became his "10 Best Pizza Cities in the U.S." list. Nothing from Portland. Nothing from Seattle. So infuriating.
Portland's Apizza Scholls and ESPECIALLY Ken's Artisan Pizza deserve to be on any list depicting the best pizza in this country. Mozza's easily the best pizza I've eaten in L.A., but apparently Mr. Richman thinks the mediocre Tomato Pie is better. I happen to think he's wrong. This list is all kinds of wrong.
But yeah...going to only 10 cities and then declaring those 10 the greatest pizza cities in America, even when Phoenix has but a single great pizza joint? Laughable. No, it's more than that. It's pathetic.
WikiAdam at 7:44PM on 05/23/09
Wow. I feel special. Makes me want to blow more hot air in the future. ;-)
btw, I added another comment noting Firehouse as well in that post. They use a wood oven and do a really nice job and remind me a lot of A16. The bread comes out less crispy, and more soft, but still mottled with char and great ingredients on top in balance.
If someone from Slice ever wants to come out here, I will gladly tour you around and pay for all your pizza meals.
extramsg at 4:03PM on 05/24/09
Hey extramsg, whats a convenient hotel in Portland with good access to several of these pizzerias? I think I need to take you up on that.
L.A. Pizza Maven at 5:19PM on 05/25/09
Most are in Southeast. It's more residential than commercial. Portland's not that big, though. The Jupiter, kind of a hipster hotel, would probably be the closest, or something in the Lloyd Center/Irvington area. But just staying downtown would be fine. You could stay at the Ace, more of an upscale hipster hotel, and be above my restaurant, if you wanted. Or try The Nines, a new boutique hotel that has some deals going right now. Or do what I would do: Priceline it.
Approximate Locations:
Apizza Scholls - SE Hawthorne & 47th
Ken's Artisan - SE Ankeny & 28th
Nostrana - SE Belmont & 14th
Al Forno Ferruzza - NE Alberta & 27th
Firehouse - NE Dekum & 7th
Tastebud - SE Powell & McLaughlin
Apizza - Stayton, Oregon
Portland blocks are very small. To give you an idea, my restaurant is at SW 11th & Stark, across the river from the eastside, and yet to Apizza Scholls, about 60 blocks east and 15 blocks south -- 75 blocks total -- is only 3.5 miles away. My house is further by 5 minutes in a car and I get to work in 15 minutes or less.
But come up! My offer is good.
extramsg at 12:09AM on 05/26/09
That's beautiful of you...thanks for the info...im hoping to make it up in july, chow...
L.A. Pizza Maven at 1:42AM on 05/26/09
I agree completely, I'm opening a pizzeria in Seattle and I'm from the new york area, I've been to mozza and Bianco and pretty much everywhere on the east coast. Portland is definitely one of the major pizza cities in the country. Ken's especially is surely in my top 3 or 4 in the country. I'm always surprised at how little attention it gets. Thanks for bringing Portland into the mix.
delanceyseattle at 4:12AM on 05/26/09
Hey delancey in Seattle, heres a heads up on something you might be interested in...I guess there are several VPN certified pizzerias in seattle and there willl be a Vpn sponsored pizza convention the week of june 23-30....in Seattle..You may want to check it out.
L.A. Pizza Maven at 12:01PM on 05/26/09
Glad to hear you know of the greatness that is Ken's, delanceyseattle! If I may, what's the name of your upcoming pizzeria in Seattle?
WikiAdam at 5:10PM on 05/26/09
@WikiAdam: Just in case Delanceyseattle doesn't come back 'round these parts, his pizzeria will be called Delancey. He's opening it with his wife, Molly Wizenberg, who's a pretty well-known foodblogger—Orangette. She's got several posts about the place, but this one should get you started.
Adam Kuban at 6:11PM on 05/26/09
@Adam Kuban: Hey, thanks!
WikiAdam at 6:25PM on 05/26/09
Whoa! 8 good pizzerias!
Sheesh. I have more than 8 world class pizzerias within a mile of me.
Mooner at 9:32PM on 05/26/09
@ LA Pizza Maven
Well, I'm coming down there in early July (somewhere between the 8th and 12th), so don't come up then!
extramsg at 1:18AM on 05/27/09
@Mooner: Unless you live in New York, I don't believe you.
Also, do you have any idea how small Portland is?
WikiAdam at 4:26AM on 05/27/09
e@xtramsg
If you want any pizza advice / company when youre down here, let me know!
L.A. Pizza Maven at 11:23AM on 05/27/09
@wikiadam, I live in Chicago. New York pizza? Pbbbbtttt.
Hey, there's probably good pizza in Seattle. But you're not competing on the level of cities like Chicago, New York and Detroit (!!!)
Mooner at 2:50PM on 05/27/09
@Mooner:
I live in Portland, and in terms of quantity it definitely can't compete with places like Detroit, Chicago, New York, etc. It's just too small, and the focus here is (unfortunately) on seafood. But we're slowly gaining ground. The good places here are better than the best I've had in much larger cities. Like L.A., for example. Huge. Horrible pizza scene.
Now, as for Chicago-style pizza, I'm glad you think so highly of it. I really enjoy it too, but they're almost like apples and oranges with me, they're so different. I enjoy them both for what they are, but when I say "great pizza places" I personally am referring to NY-style, not Chicago.
@Delancey:
Really looking forward to trying your place out. Keep us posted on when you open your doors!
WikiAdam at 3:06PM on 05/27/09
Uh, there is a deep dish pizza, sure. But Chicago's pizzas are every different kind. I personally don't even like deep dish that much.
Mooner at 9:00PM on 05/27/09
Not deep dish and not NY-style? Then what style is it?
WikiAdam at 10:16PM on 05/27/09
@ LA Pizza Maven
Contact me through Extramsg.com's feedback page.
extramsg at 3:01PM on 06/02/09