Uh oh. Ferran Adrià and his brother Albertohave announced plans to open a pizzeria in Barcelona, raising the hackles of some Italian pizza partisans.
But the world-renown chef and owner of El Bulli (the "best restaurant in the world" for four years running, is not going to deconstruct the dish using the high-tech "molecular gastronomy" techniques he's known for:
Ferran and his brother Alberto, the pastry chef at cutting-edge El Bulli, plan to open a straightforward pizzeria in Barcelona, apparently one that will be gimmick-free. They insist their goal is to create an honest interpretation of the Italian specialty, not to wheel out chemicals, liquid nitrogen and other experimental cooking methods to alter toppings, the sauce or dough.
No, what the Italians are up in arms about is simply the idea that someone not of Italian origin has the gall to try to open a great pizzeria.
While I truly do believe that anyone of any extraction can make great pizza, I think one of the pizzaioli quoted in the L.A. Times story has a point:
"The secret of the pizza is inside the blood," [world-champion pizza maker Vincenzo] Mansi said. "You don't wake up one morning and improvise yourself as a pizzaiolo. I've been doing this for over 18 years, and I still don't feel like I've mastered it. You need to know how to touch the dough. You need to know how to deal with the ingredients. You don't become pizzaiolo, you are born pizzaiolo."
Making great pizza is a matter of putting heart and soul into it and not making it just a sideline-hobby of your primary restaurant.
Though if Mansi is implying that one needs to be born in Italy to make a great pie, I've got quite a few U.S.-born pizza-makers here to show him a thing or two.
sr. mansi seems to be contradicting himself in his quote. plus, i know some milanesi (locals of milan) who say some of the best pizza in their fair town is found in chinese immigrant owned pizzerias.
actually, i'd love to see Adria's take on pizza--he's really pioneered the use of chemicals and "molecular gastronomy" in recent years, and it'd be interesting to see how he applies those principles to something as simple as pizza.
Also, pizza as we know it is really an american invention.
Also, Mansi is exactly the kind of elitist prick that makes all chefs look bad-i learned how to make pizza after a buddy of mine got me a job at Mellow Mushroom when i was 18, not because of some kind of family tradition of pizza making. it takes nothing special outside of an eye for detail and a creative mind to make great pizza.
Some people are just gifted at things. So you've been making pizza all your life, it doesn't mean a great chef couldn't learn your craft and outdo you in a short amount of time. It's like a gifted athlete taking up a different sport and dominating 99% of the people who have been playing their whole lives.
In the blood? Bah. I agree that the greatest masters understand how much more there is to learn in their art but I wholly reject the notion that its Italian's blood right to make great pizza. Hard work, dedication, great teachers; the former being more important than the latter. In case I'm wrong I'm glad I have the birth right.
Perhaps we'll next hear a claim that the ability to make great espresso is "in the blood"? I recently returned form ten days in Italy and although I had a few very good espressos (out of the of the dozens of shots and cafes I tried) I can and do get consistently better espresso at a few dozen shops here in the US - in a variety of cities and locations.
@rasellers0: Did you read the article? This isn't about american pizza. This is about a possible Neapolitan style pizzeria, in Spain.. And Mansi is a pizzaioli, not a chef.
I love Italians, but they can be serious douchebags sometimes with this kind of ultra nationalistic borderline racist crap. I have no doubts that Adria can and will excel and whatever task he sets his mind to.
@prairie--OK, you got me there, but i think my point is still valid. Also, what the hell is a pizzaioli? is that kinda like someone that tosses a pie around? cos if so, i'm just as much(hell, maybe more) than Mr. Mansi is.
See, this is why I hate foodies--ego. people love to attach these weird-ass notions to names and titles and esteem them so highly that they don't even consider anything else. It gets to a weird sort of snobbery, and it's just sad. Maybe I don't have a fancy title, but I bust my ass every night making pies, and I've definitely picked up my share of tricks on the line.
That's fine, and I totally respect you for that, but you produce pizza that is 30 times removed from the pizza being referenced in this article. So do I.
It has nothing to do with ego (or being a foodie, which i'm not. i'm a pizza lover), but there are accepted terms and accepted definitions of food that are used on this site and elsewhere. I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you don't understand what is being talked about at least try and do some basic research.
There is a tradition and a standard surrounding NEOPOLITAN pizza. It is an entirely different beast than what is made at the majority of the places in New York City, and certainly at most of the places throughout the states.
Having eaten at a few Mellow Mushroom's I can tell you that i've never had anything but great pizza, keep it up (if that is where you are still working.)
Prairie--I don't work at Mellow Mushroom any longer, actually, but Tomatino's(NY Times or WSJ did a story on us a while back), which produces pizza of an entirely different variety from Mellow Mushrom; Neither of which are what you'd describe as New York style.
And you claim not to be a foodie, but there you go doing just what i've described--you esteem Neapolitan style seemingly merely because there's a tradition behind it.
"Adria is very smart and does tons of research and has a huge staff and happens to be a pretty good guy. It's unlikely his pizza won't be great. "
ScoreboardGourmet at 9:19PM on 05/13/09
Replace Adria with Batali in the above comment,and reconsider?
@rasellers0: I don't think Prairie was "esteeming" Neapolitan style pizza in his comment above, merely pointing out that there IS a tradition behind it. I've known Prairie via email/blogging for quite a while now, and I can assure you he appreciates all sorts of pizza styles. If you don't get where he's coming from, just see this email he sent in, defending "American style" pizza. It's poignant and insightful and the furthest thing from food/pizza snobbery: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/04/dear-slice-on-customer-service-and-dedication.html
@seriouspizza: You have a point there. Otto is a bit of a disappointment, given the name behind it. Which is a shame, given that Batali is also partners in Pizzeria Mozza, which I have not had but which gets rave reviews. Just shows that you really need someone with the passion and dedication to making great pizza—whether it's "in the blood," or not. If Adrià and his brother have truly caught the pizza bug and will be cooking the pies daily and reacting to changing conditions, then there's a chance. If he's going to learn the process and try to pass it on to others at his shop, then there's still a chance but it diminishes—it all depends on the weakest link in the pizzaiolo chain in that case.
Give us Italians some credit, please!
Mansi is not implying at all that you have to be Italian to do a proper pizza, he's just skeptical about someone (even a famous chef) deciding to start making pizza out of the blue.
In the original LA Times article it is said that the news "sent the Italian food blogosphere reeling" and quoted two Italian food blogs that "responded with resentment over a foreign celebrity chef trying to redo an Italian classic." I read those blogs and this is simply not true. All the concerns are about the possibility of a chef, famous for "molecular cuisine", trying to deconstruct pizza, which is being deconstructed enough already all over the world.
Italians simply don't care about the passport of the pizza makers or their parents, but about preserving the original concept of pizza, which is often undermined by many monstrosities, maybe excellent ones, that shouldn't be called pizza at all. Cheese and Pears
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18 Comments:
sr. mansi seems to be contradicting himself in his quote. plus, i know some milanesi (locals of milan) who say some of the best pizza in their fair town is found in chinese immigrant owned pizzerias.
ace1025 at 5:29PM on 05/13/09
actually, i'd love to see Adria's take on pizza--he's really pioneered the use of chemicals and "molecular gastronomy" in recent years, and it'd be interesting to see how he applies those principles to something as simple as pizza.
Also, pizza as we know it is really an american invention.
Also, Mansi is exactly the kind of elitist prick that makes all chefs look bad-i learned how to make pizza after a buddy of mine got me a job at Mellow Mushroom when i was 18, not because of some kind of family tradition of pizza making. it takes nothing special outside of an eye for detail and a creative mind to make great pizza.
rasellers0 at 6:00PM on 05/13/09
Some people are just gifted at things. So you've been making pizza all your life, it doesn't mean a great chef couldn't learn your craft and outdo you in a short amount of time. It's like a gifted athlete taking up a different sport and dominating 99% of the people who have been playing their whole lives.
EricRoberts at 9:09PM on 05/13/09
Adria is very smart and does tons of research and has a huge staff and happens to be a pretty good guy. It's unlikely his pizza won't be great.
ScoreboardGourmet at 9:19PM on 05/13/09
In the blood? Bah. I agree that the greatest masters understand how much more there is to learn in their art but I wholly reject the notion that its Italian's blood right to make great pizza. Hard work, dedication, great teachers; the former being more important than the latter. In case I'm wrong I'm glad I have the birth right.
christopher at 9:28PM on 05/13/09
Perhaps we'll next hear a claim that the ability to make great espresso is "in the blood"? I recently returned form ten days in Italy and although I had a few very good espressos (out of the of the dozens of shots and cafes I tried) I can and do get consistently better espresso at a few dozen shops here in the US - in a variety of cities and locations.
phaelon56 at 9:27AM on 05/14/09
@rasellers0: Did you read the article? This isn't about american pizza. This is about a possible Neapolitan style pizzeria, in Spain.. And Mansi is a pizzaioli, not a chef.
Prairie at 10:31AM on 05/14/09
I love Italians, but they can be serious douchebags sometimes with this kind of ultra nationalistic borderline racist crap. I have no doubts that Adria can and will excel and whatever task he sets his mind to.
simon at 12:16PM on 05/14/09
@prairie--OK, you got me there, but i think my point is still valid. Also, what the hell is a pizzaioli? is that kinda like someone that tosses a pie around? cos if so, i'm just as much(hell, maybe more) than Mr. Mansi is.
rasellers0 at 3:07PM on 05/14/09
No, you aren't.
Prairie at 9:40PM on 05/14/09
See, this is why I hate foodies--ego. people love to attach these weird-ass notions to names and titles and esteem them so highly that they don't even consider anything else. It gets to a weird sort of snobbery, and it's just sad. Maybe I don't have a fancy title, but I bust my ass every night making pies, and I've definitely picked up my share of tricks on the line.
rasellers0 at 2:15AM on 05/15/09
That's fine, and I totally respect you for that, but you produce pizza that is 30 times removed from the pizza being referenced in this article. So do I.
It has nothing to do with ego (or being a foodie, which i'm not. i'm a pizza lover), but there are accepted terms and accepted definitions of food that are used on this site and elsewhere. I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you don't understand what is being talked about at least try and do some basic research.
There is a tradition and a standard surrounding NEOPOLITAN pizza. It is an entirely different beast than what is made at the majority of the places in New York City, and certainly at most of the places throughout the states.
Having eaten at a few Mellow Mushroom's I can tell you that i've never had anything but great pizza, keep it up (if that is where you are still working.)
Prairie at 9:56AM on 05/15/09
Nice to see Snr.Adria showing restraint for the Heinz ketchup bottle.
seriouspizza at 12:42PM on 05/15/09
Prairie--I don't work at Mellow Mushroom any longer, actually, but Tomatino's(NY Times or WSJ did a story on us a while back), which produces pizza of an entirely different variety from Mellow Mushrom; Neither of which are what you'd describe as New York style.
And you claim not to be a foodie, but there you go doing just what i've described--you esteem Neapolitan style seemingly merely because there's a tradition behind it.
rasellers0 at 12:53PM on 05/15/09
"Adria is very smart and does tons of research and has a huge staff and happens to be a pretty good guy. It's unlikely his pizza won't be great. "
ScoreboardGourmet at 9:19PM on 05/13/09
Replace Adria with Batali in the above comment,and reconsider?
seriouspizza at 12:55PM on 05/15/09
@rasellers0: I don't think Prairie was "esteeming" Neapolitan style pizza in his comment above, merely pointing out that there IS a tradition behind it. I've known Prairie via email/blogging for quite a while now, and I can assure you he appreciates all sorts of pizza styles. If you don't get where he's coming from, just see this email he sent in, defending "American style" pizza. It's poignant and insightful and the furthest thing from food/pizza snobbery: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/04/dear-slice-on-customer-service-and-dedication.html
Adam Kuban at 12:57PM on 05/15/09
@seriouspizza: You have a point there. Otto is a bit of a disappointment, given the name behind it. Which is a shame, given that Batali is also partners in Pizzeria Mozza, which I have not had but which gets rave reviews. Just shows that you really need someone with the passion and dedication to making great pizza—whether it's "in the blood," or not. If Adrià and his brother have truly caught the pizza bug and will be cooking the pies daily and reacting to changing conditions, then there's a chance. If he's going to learn the process and try to pass it on to others at his shop, then there's still a chance but it diminishes—it all depends on the weakest link in the pizzaiolo chain in that case.
Adam Kuban at 1:01PM on 05/15/09
Give us Italians some credit, please!
Mansi is not implying at all that you have to be Italian to do a proper pizza, he's just skeptical about someone (even a famous chef) deciding to start making pizza out of the blue.
In the original LA Times article it is said that the news "sent the Italian food blogosphere reeling" and quoted two Italian food blogs that "responded with resentment over a foreign celebrity chef trying to redo an Italian classic." I read those blogs and this is simply not true. All the concerns are about the possibility of a chef, famous for "molecular cuisine", trying to deconstruct pizza, which is being deconstructed enough already all over the world.
Italians simply don't care about the passport of the pizza makers or their parents, but about preserving the original concept of pizza, which is often undermined by many monstrosities, maybe excellent ones, that shouldn't be called pizza at all.
Cheese and Pears
cheeseandpears at 7:02AM on 05/23/09