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I ordered a large cup with scoops of salted caramel, roasted banana, malted vanilla, and some hot fudge.

You threw it out?

You threw it out??!!

As a San Franciscan, I'm continually amazed that anyone spends any amount of time at all bothering to write about the pizza in the city.

Of the pizza restaurants that have opened within the past two-to-three years (and those are the ones garnering attention), I can't believe that these are in any way noteworthy, or that one is unable to find pies of a similar quality and style in any major city in the country. I mean, seriously: 10" pies cooked in gas ovens and topped with arugula or potatoes or squash, hey, maybe all three! Most of the kids working the ovens have been doing so less than a year. A16 is an exception, but it's straight up Naples-style, and thus in its own category (not that it's good, anyway).

I've eaten at Pizzeria Delfina three times over two years, Gialina once (their squash pizza was vile; the margherita insipid and badly under-cooked), A16, Beretta and, against my better judgement, will probably try Flour + Water. None of them are even as good as the most mediocre pie you can get in NYC.

I don't know why the press keeps trying to shove the slipper of "good pizza" onto San Francisco's mis-shapen foot. It hasn't fit. It doesn't fit.

Ah, pizza provocateurs are out in number today thanks to Mr Levine's recent update. To jpancake, I have to say that you are either much too harsh in your condemnations or you are the unluckiest diner in Baghdad by the Bay. Having lived in SF for most of the 80s, I know what it is to be deprived of a decent slice. I remember a roommate, many years ago, being enanamored of the pizza at a local Sf multi-branch pizzeria named Cybelle's. Though I usually shared when he would bring home a pie, it was with the knowledge that, high as we were, it would still barely suffice. And it always had a very peculiar taste and smell of dishwater. The pizza scene today is greatly improved compared to back in the Reagan era. My own experience at Delfina's on California St (described in detail on Slice) left me rather surprised at the quality. It was not worth waiting an hour for, nor should it have been ranked as highly as it was by Mr Richman,but it was quite tasty. I hope to visit Gialina this week...I had an excellent pizza experience at Gioia's in Berkeley,too. As for Mr Grubjunkie, I think you've gone beyond the pale of the truth when you claim that in" the realm of high end pies,the stuff in SF is just as good as the most lauded NY shops." That is as close to serious criticism as the happily departed Bush regime's rejection of global warming's reality. My remaining question,however, is for Mr Levine. Where exactly do these joints rate on a scale of the country's 25 best? We await your remarks anxiously.

Pix or it didn't happen.

I have lived in SF 15 years and have been obsessed w/making the perfect pizza since I moved here and couldn't get a decent pie. I went to Naples 8 years ago and really got religion (at da michele's, of course). I have hacked multiple ovens to reach over 900F and set off more than my fair share of smoke alarms. I have made pizza for friends almost every weekend for the last 3 months and built multiple ovens. When it comes to pizza I think I know what I'm talking about. Alan Richman does not.
His article was lazy and uninformed, but his greatest offense was his pretension that he is an authority. I don't mind a writer expressing his opinions, but his total lack of humility, his outright arrogance was offensive (I got my fill of that w/Dubya)
All I want to know is, did he go to Apizza Scholls? If not, why not? If he did go, how long has he been nipping at daddy's crack pipe?

Ed- When in Chicago, I recommend coalfire and spacca napoli
next time in SF, checkout Picco in Larkspur and send me an email, I'll make you a pie

p.s. according to Marsal, their ovens max at 650 which is consistent w/the baking time of the pies at Delfina at 4-5 minutes. I wrote the company and the rep wrote back, "you don't need it any higher" (no comment)
I agree completely w/your review, their crust definitely lacks character, but all else is spot on.

@jpancake, what places do you like in NY? have you been to Picco in Larkspur?

@jpancake Althogh I'm sure I agree wholeheartly with it, but I love that last comment.

@rachelb The Rachelb of NYC and Chicago blogging fame? I'm not sure why, but I used to love following your somewhat humorous exploits. I'm also not sure why I stopped. Perhaps I'll start again if you're still out there.

@Ed As previously mentioned, you shudda triied the sand dabs at Pizzeria Delfina:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauliegee/849123136/in/set-72157600889688256/

Ciao,

Paulie Gee

@grubjunkie - as an east coaster still living on the East coast I agree with you 100%. There is an incredible abundance of truly mediocre pizza in NYC. In my experience 90% or more of the walk-up takeaway slice joints there suck. As for the higher end places that pull it off and do it right... there are more of them in NYC than in other US cities but the posturing as THE place where pizza is defined to the exclusion of all others - is indefensible.

@krupman
I have been to Picco, and found the pizza pretty meh. On the more pleasing side of meh, but still meh. The caesar salad, though, was incredibly good. Like, the best I've ever had. I'd be willing to roll the dice on the pizza again, just to get another salad.

Apart from the 'name' places in NYC (Totonno's, DiFara), I had a wonderful experience at a place in Queens which my friend took me to (I have no idea what the name is, its anonymity being part of its charm in my memory) which was his Favorite growing up. And it was great. Nothing surprising, but the guy has been there for decades doing the same thing. Not trying to impress anyone, just trying to make a living serving honest working-class food. And, admittedly, that's a personal hang-up. I'm more at home in a place that's unpretentious and unsurprising than I am sitting down at a 'high-end' pizza joint. I like to think that I can look past what I see as pretension and evaluate the food on its own terms, but, who knows.

I saw that you mentioned Apizza Scholl's in Portland and while I haven't been to Mozza in LA, I'm willing to bet that it's currently the best pie you can get on the west coast. I ate there a little over a year ago, and I'm hopefully going back up in August. I think of it almost daily. :')

I have eaten here as well, just never reviewed it on my site, and I have to say, this is nothing I am dying to come back and try. I don't even crave it like I do some of the other greats.

Gaspars for old school.

@tonecapo. We like to chew the fat about pizza in all kinds of ways on Slice. I don't think it's pretentious at all to talk about pizza in the way it's being talked about on this thread. That's what serious eaters do on Slice. It represents the spirit that in general is a big part of the Serious Eats community.

I have another new Miami winner for you, Sosta on Lincoln Road.
http://thechowfather.blogspot.com/2009/06/pizza-pizza-sosta-delivers.html

I need to add a little bit to my post here. I think Craig Stoll is a terrific chef and I have had much soulful and wonderful food at Delfina. I should have chosen my words more carefully in describing his pizza. And I heard once again tonight which pizza I should have ordered there, as bwng noted earlier in this thread: the Panna pie. Next time.