I received this interesting query a couple weeks ago and thought I'd share it with you. It involves word nerdery, which is a small interest of mine. Also—sorry for the slowness here this week. I've been on vacation this week. I'm in Wildwood, New Jersey. Haven't eaten much pizza—just did Sam's Pizza a couple times. OK. Back to the show. —The Mgmt.
Adam, Barry Popik (barrypopik.com) referred me to you after I sent him this inquiry:
> Any sense of what the more common [term] is in the NYC area to describe a slice of pizza with no toppings (other than cheese): a "regular" slice or a "plain" slice? I checked the 4 relevant take-out menus I have, and saw two uses of each.
Mr. Popik's replied:
> PLAIN SLICE + PIZZA--13,300 Google hits
> REGULAR SLICE + PIZZA--7.060 Google hits
> CHEESE SLICE + PIZZA--25,200 Google hits
> PLAIN SLICE + PIZZA + BROOKLYN--710 Google hits
> REGULAR SLICE + PIZZA + BROOKLYN--864 Google hits
> CHEESE SLICE + PIZZA + BROOKLYN--1,101 Google hits
> ...
> I haven't studied this. Maybe you should ask the guy at the "Slice" pizza blog (slice.seriouseats.com).
> ...
> "Slice" (or "cheese slice") implies a plain/regular slice. That's what most people say.
> ...
> I prefer saying "plain" over "regular" -- "regular" is for the size of a pizza pie (regular, large, extra large). However, many restaurants use the word "regular" instead of "plain" because "plain" sounds drab for a slice. For a whole pie, "Pizza Margherita" is substituted for "plain pie."
Note: I thought I was leaning towards "plain slice" -- but now, after thinking too much, I'm not sure.
Any thoughts appreciated -- because, surely, this is important stuff.
—David D.
Williamsburg, Bkln
From the original Ray's Pizza at 27 Prince Street in Manhattan.
Interesting question. I've only lived here in NYC since 2000, but I picked up "plain slice" pretty soon after moving here.
Definitely not "cheese slice," as I think Barry's dead on—"plain slice" or "regular slice" or just plain "slice" implies crust-sauce-cheese.
I've never thought about "regular" as a modifier for the size of the pizza. I've heard it used most often when someone is ordering a square (Sicilian) slice and *then* a "regular" triangular-shaped slice—most often at places that are renown for squares:
"Yeah, lemme get two a those squares—corners—and ... a couple regular slices."
In that case, the "regular" refers to the round pie—the more commonly consumed type—and the assumption is that those "regular" slices are "plain slices."
If you will allow me further musings on language in ordering food in New York City, I've noticed that native New Yorkers often use the phrase "Lemme get XYZ."
Granted, I never really paid attention to ordering lingo while growing up in Kansas City or when I lived in the Northwest for a few years, but I had always learned to use phrases that were a bit more soft—"Yes, I'd like XYZ, please." Then again, I also use "Could I get XYZ"—but even that is a bit softer than "Lemme get...."
David, may I ask why you're researching this? Are you writing something about it or just curious?
If you'd like additional insight, with your permission I'd like to publish your query on Slice as a "Dear Slice" letter. Maybe the pizza gallery would have something interesting to say. But if you're working on some sort of article on it, I can sit on it.
Hasta la pizza,
Adam
------------------------------------------------------------
Not research for a book, rather a blog about rhyming-nyc-things, including lots of NY food items...
Wasn't sure it would happen, but it just went up: http://NYCRhymology.com ...and I just posted "plain slice/Italian ice" and thought of you.
Myself, I'm also a "plain slice" guy, which is why I used that term in my post. But please feel free to inquire further to see what folks say. (For the purposes of my blog, I do rather care what is the more common usage.)
Also, I totally agree re: that expression "lemme get a" that NY'ers (and now I) use in stores... I have occasionally found myself using that expression when I'm home in my native St Louis, MO and it always sounds harsh!
(But I reckon a lot of my Missouri-flavored utterances sound quaint to NY'ers... e.g., an African cabbie once scolded me for calling him "sir"--he seemed to think it was a *colonial* thing! -- not that that will stop me from saying "yes ma'am", "yes sir", "please" and "thank you" like my parents taught me to do!)
Best wishes & thanks for the reply--as I said, pardon the delay, wasn't sure I had a reason to be asking my pizza question!
i personally have always preferred just the word "slice"
i have always hated the phrase "cheese slice"
a slice with tomato and cheese should be the standard so using the adjective cheese is redundant
in ny, before it stopped being ny, most people would have just said "slice"
Gianluca http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
Hey Adam, where are the above slices from? They look tasty. Especially the top one. The crust look bubbly yet on the rare side, which I love, and the cheese is very gooey and abundant yet in apparent proportion with the sauce...
Gimme a slice. None of this regular or plain slice nonsense. And certainly not a "cheese slice". Now do you say a "large pizza" or "large pie"? I'm a pie guy.
Grew up saying "slice" and "pie."
Once I was in Florida visiting my brother and when I ordered "a slice" the guy asked me what I meant, what kind of slice I wanted. I found it really strange, to me it was clear that I meant a plain slice, but it had never occurred to me that it was a NY-thing.
Throw this one in the mix: in my old neighborhood (Brooklyn) and where we are now (Long Island) - if you're just ordering a "regular" slice (of the New York- Neapolitan variety), it's 'a slice'. If you're also ordering Sicilian, it's "Gimme two 'rounds' and two 'squares'.
Of course it's not round, but there are a lotta guys in Bensonhurst who would injure themselves trying to say "triangular".
Yeah, I lived in NY(Brooklyn) for seven years and worked a half block from Joe's on Carmine for two of those years. It's just slice! "Can I get a slice" or "Lemme get a slice" or "Gimme a slice" are all acceptable. I've never heard anyone say regular or plain slice.
depending on what's waiting in the window, i always qualify my order. normally it's "a slice of plain" sometimes "cheese" or "regular" slips out, but then i almost always get two slices with the second one being a pepperoni slice, so distinguishing what i want seems appropriate.
when ordering a whole pie i used to say "plain pie" or "plain pizza," but since i now pretty much solely frequent places that have "Margherita" specified on the menu, that's what i say.
When i go to my standard slice joint, I just say "two to go". Only if I want a sicilian slice will I specify. Other places I'll say either "two plain" or "two slices". I never used regular and i would never say "a plain slice", seems redundant to me.
I've heard plain slice when I'm in NYC, I'm from L.A. and we always would say "slice of cheese" when I was growing up. In fact I'd never heard the term regular or plain slice until I went to NY.
D'oh! I totally, totally, totally blanked on "slice," for which this blog is named. CRAP. Yes, you "slice" people have hit the nail on the head. I started out saying "plain slice" after having seen it on some menus around town, but I must have transitioned to "slice" after hearing other folks say it. It's the most streamlined and efficient way to order. Simply "slice," with maybe an index finger raised to indicate "1."
@simon: I just added caption info to the photos. From top: Sabella Pizza (a fairly run-of-the-mill slice on Prospect Park West in Park Slope/Windsor Terrace), Ray's on Prince Street (taken inside the bus on one of Scott's Pizza Tours), and Tomato & Basil on Union Street and Fourth Avenue in Park Slope/Gowanus.
I know this is nitpicky, but I hate 'cheese slice' since it seems to imply that the standard slice is cheese-less. Or that you want it with 'extra cheese.'
Also if you say, "I'll have a slice of the pepperoni," it also comes with cheese.
Plain slice I also dislike because it isn't plain--it has cheese on it!
Slice it is! Saying, "I want a slice" implies you want a piece of standard, unadorned but not reinterpreted (ie cheeseless or tomato sauce-less) pizza.
To me, "plain" implies that it lacks something, such as decoration / toppings. Good slices lack nothing, even if they are topped with the simplest of ingredients. Using "plain" is offensive.
"Regular" may be pretty accurate in that it describes a "standard" but it still give me a bad vibe.
If you request a "slice," you're going to get something with cheese and tomato. It's good and it's simple, or "streamlined" as Adam says.
With me it's "I'll have a slice" or "I'll have a square". Unless I'm at Spumoni Gardens where the vast majority of customers get the Sicilian. On the rare occasion I'm not getting a Sicilian there, I ask for a regular slice. And I never ask for a square or Sicilian there. I ask for a "side" (as opposed to a corner or a middle).
@Slicemeister Did you spot any of these during your trip:
Someone came into my pizzeria and asked me if it was correct to order "a regular" to get a slice. Like, "Give me a regular". I told him no, not unless you want a coffee with milk and two sugars.
"Slice" and "regular" both sound like regional New Yorkisms to me. Out here in the provinces, I would say "cheese" and then, if I were in California, my heart would break a little because it wasn't some sort of abomination with mangoes and chocolate.
In slice joints I have always seen just "slice" as in "gimme a slice" or "cheese slice" when it's one of those places with about ten different types of pies available by the slice - in which case I'll ask for "just a cheese slice."
Huh. I've lived in the Bay Area all my life, and here I'd say "lemme get a cheese slice". If you'd asked me what a "regular" slice was 15 minutes ago, I probably would've guessed pepperoni- I don't think straight cheese is a big seller here. I can't think of the last time I had a pizza with less than two toppings.
I had a pizza party recently and had one diner ask for no cheese due to her being lactose intolerant/vegan. So, I ordered an entire pie w/o cheese but with 'shrooms and peppers. I've come to realize she and others with her dietary requirements don't have the luxury of a slice, plain nor otherwise unless specifically ordered. Are there pizza parlors that offer slices w/o cheese in the city?
I think I either say just "plain" or just "slice." As in, "Can I get 2 plain" or "Can I get a slice" or something along those lines. I grew up in NY but no longer live there so now I'm probably overthinking it.
@HeartofGlass: If you were to say "piece of pizza" in NYC, I think the person behind the counter would say something to the effect of, "No kidding. What kinda slice you want?"
Geez, I don't know what I would say since I always get a whole pie at the local pizza joint. The owner might make fun of me when I left his place, but I know that he wants my business and really wouldn't care as long as I put my money on the counter.
@hungry-traveller you might ask for a tomato pie. It's just a thick crust with the tomato sauce and can be really quite tasty.
Plain slice all the way...at least in the NYC area. In New England, they have tomato pie - and a plain slice is called a cheese slice. According to the other comments (and with brother, who is sitting next to me and goes to school in Texas) plain slice transcribing to cheese slice seems fairly common in other parts of the country. Maybe due to the prevalence of fast food pizza chains, um, everywhere?
"Plain" or "regular" or just "slice" as ways to denote "no toppings" are all fine with me. What bothers me is hearing "a slice of cheese." It seems to me that that implies that cheese counts as a topping, and that there are pizzas without cheese. Granted, I've seen a few things called pizza without cheese, but that's not what we're talking about here; cheese and sauce are integral parts of the pizza, not toppings. "A slice of pepperoni" make sense, as pepperoni is a topping, but "a slice of cheese" does not.
This is a totally academic topic for me, because I generally order a pie, and can't remember the last time I had pizza without at least one non-cheese topping. Maybe that disqualifies my opinion, as a lover of garbage pizza...
I like HeartofGlass's arguments against "cheese slice" and "plain slice", but I've also got a (totally geeky) problem with just "slice". It's just ambiguous from an information theory perspective. For example, if you say "and one slice of pepperoni" over the phone (as part of a larger order, say), it could sound like "and one slice ", if you lost signal for a moment.
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Adam,
39 Comments:
i personally have always preferred just the word "slice"
i have always hated the phrase "cheese slice"
a slice with tomato and cheese should be the standard so using the adjective cheese is redundant
in ny, before it stopped being ny, most people would have just said "slice"
Gianluca
http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
nextgospel at 10:12AM on 06/26/09
i normally just say "slice". ive noticed that its typically the out of towner or non-native new yorker that requests a "cheese slice".
stuey at 10:17AM on 06/26/09
That’s three for “Slice”. I have never heard anyone from NY/NJ say “One plain slice, please”. In Jersey we say, “Let me getta slice.”
davey at 10:31AM on 06/26/09
hell yeah! i'm glad native ny'ers (and a jersey boy) are backing me up on my post :)
nextgospel at 10:34AM on 06/26/09
slice.
Hey Adam, where are the above slices from? They look tasty. Especially the top one. The crust look bubbly yet on the rare side, which I love, and the cheese is very gooey and abundant yet in apparent proportion with the sauce...
simon at 11:23AM on 06/26/09
Gimme a slice. None of this regular or plain slice nonsense. And certainly not a "cheese slice". Now do you say a "large pizza" or "large pie"? I'm a pie guy.
bronxpizzaboy at 11:27AM on 06/26/09
Grew up saying "slice" and "pie."
Once I was in Florida visiting my brother and when I ordered "a slice" the guy asked me what I meant, what kind of slice I wanted. I found it really strange, to me it was clear that I meant a plain slice, but it had never occurred to me that it was a NY-thing.
meghanjoy at 1:08PM on 06/26/09
Throw this one in the mix: in my old neighborhood (Brooklyn) and where we are now (Long Island) - if you're just ordering a "regular" slice (of the New York- Neapolitan variety), it's 'a slice'. If you're also ordering Sicilian, it's "Gimme two 'rounds' and two 'squares'.
Of course it's not round, but there are a lotta guys in Bensonhurst who would injure themselves trying to say "triangular".
passion4pizza at 1:45PM on 06/26/09
Yeah, I lived in NY(Brooklyn) for seven years and worked a half block from Joe's on Carmine for two of those years. It's just slice! "Can I get a slice" or "Lemme get a slice" or "Gimme a slice" are all acceptable. I've never heard anyone say regular or plain slice.
tdeane at 2:03PM on 06/26/09
depending on what's waiting in the window, i always qualify my order. normally it's "a slice of plain" sometimes "cheese" or "regular" slips out, but then i almost always get two slices with the second one being a pepperoni slice, so distinguishing what i want seems appropriate.
when ordering a whole pie i used to say "plain pie" or "plain pizza," but since i now pretty much solely frequent places that have "Margherita" specified on the menu, that's what i say.
egadman at 3:24PM on 06/26/09
When i go to my standard slice joint, I just say "two to go". Only if I want a sicilian slice will I specify. Other places I'll say either "two plain" or "two slices". I never used regular and i would never say "a plain slice", seems redundant to me.
ESNY1077 at 5:07PM on 06/26/09
I've heard plain slice when I'm in NYC, I'm from L.A. and we always would say "slice of cheese" when I was growing up. In fact I'd never heard the term regular or plain slice until I went to NY.
pizzancomedy at 5:13PM on 06/26/09
D'oh! I totally, totally, totally blanked on "slice," for which this blog is named. CRAP. Yes, you "slice" people have hit the nail on the head. I started out saying "plain slice" after having seen it on some menus around town, but I must have transitioned to "slice" after hearing other folks say it. It's the most streamlined and efficient way to order. Simply "slice," with maybe an index finger raised to indicate "1."
@simon: I just added caption info to the photos. From top: Sabella Pizza (a fairly run-of-the-mill slice on Prospect Park West in Park Slope/Windsor Terrace), Ray's on Prince Street (taken inside the bus on one of Scott's Pizza Tours), and Tomato & Basil on Union Street and Fourth Avenue in Park Slope/Gowanus.
Adam Kuban at 6:54PM on 06/26/09
I know this is nitpicky, but I hate 'cheese slice' since it seems to imply that the standard slice is cheese-less. Or that you want it with 'extra cheese.'
Also if you say, "I'll have a slice of the pepperoni," it also comes with cheese.
Plain slice I also dislike because it isn't plain--it has cheese on it!
Slice it is! Saying, "I want a slice" implies you want a piece of standard, unadorned but not reinterpreted (ie cheeseless or tomato sauce-less) pizza.
HeartofGlass at 7:06PM on 06/26/09
To me, "plain" implies that it lacks something, such as decoration / toppings. Good slices lack nothing, even if they are topped with the simplest of ingredients. Using "plain" is offensive.
"Regular" may be pretty accurate in that it describes a "standard" but it still give me a bad vibe.
If you request a "slice," you're going to get something with cheese and tomato. It's good and it's simple, or "streamlined" as Adam says.
I'm into calling it a "slice."
ScottWiener at 7:36PM on 06/26/09
With me it's "I'll have a slice" or "I'll have a square". Unless I'm at Spumoni Gardens where the vast majority of customers get the Sicilian. On the rare occasion I'm not getting a Sicilian there, I ask for a regular slice. And I never ask for a square or Sicilian there. I ask for a "side" (as opposed to a corner or a middle).
@Slicemeister Did you spot any of these during your trip:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauliegee/sets/72157600168042974/
Have you seen this (great site)?:
http://www.doowopusa.org
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 8:52PM on 06/26/09
I'm from upstate NY, and years ago, plain slice sometimes meant slice with sauce but no cheese. Today, plain = cheese slice.
dmcavanagh at 9:39PM on 06/26/09
Someone came into my pizzeria and asked me if it was correct to order "a regular" to get a slice. Like, "Give me a regular". I told him no, not unless you want a coffee with milk and two sugars.
tdeane at 12:47AM on 06/27/09
as far as I am concerned on my site, a Cheese slice is moronic. You either get a regular or sicilian
pizzaexpert at 10:34PM on 06/27/09
"Slice" and "regular" both sound like regional New Yorkisms to me. Out here in the provinces, I would say "cheese" and then, if I were in California, my heart would break a little because it wasn't some sort of abomination with mangoes and chocolate.
surly at 1:26AM on 06/28/09
In NY, "regular" refers to coffee not pizza.
tdeane at 1:51PM on 06/28/09
@tdeane When you asked for a slice at Spumoni Gardens, what did the guy at the window say to you?
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 12:03AM on 06/29/09
Just walk into Joe's and say 'gimme two'. Otherwise, its just 'slice'.
Homer23 at 9:40AM on 06/29/09
In slice joints I have always seen just "slice" as in "gimme a slice" or "cheese slice" when it's one of those places with about ten different types of pies available by the slice - in which case I'll ask for "just a cheese slice."
phaelon56 at 9:55AM on 06/29/09
@pauliegee I've never been to Spumoni Gardens.
tdeane at 5:40PM on 06/29/09
Huh. I've lived in the Bay Area all my life, and here I'd say "lemme get a cheese slice". If you'd asked me what a "regular" slice was 15 minutes ago, I probably would've guessed pepperoni- I don't think straight cheese is a big seller here. I can't think of the last time I had a pizza with less than two toppings.
Ravara at 5:41PM on 06/29/09
slice for me, too.
cybercita at 10:16PM on 06/30/09
I call it "a slice". If asked for clarification I say "regular". I'm from the NY side of NJ.
gingercookiewithlime at 9:41PM on 07/05/09
I had a pizza party recently and had one diner ask for no cheese due to her being lactose intolerant/vegan. So, I ordered an entire pie w/o cheese but with 'shrooms and peppers. I've come to realize she and others with her dietary requirements don't have the luxury of a slice, plain nor otherwise unless specifically ordered. Are there pizza parlors that offer slices w/o cheese in the city?
hungry_traveler at 2:07PM on 07/06/09
@ tdeane How did you manage not to go for their square once in seven years? Did you not know of the place?
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 4:57PM on 07/06/09
No 'piece of pizza' people?
HeartofGlass at 8:27AM on 07/07/09
I think I either say just "plain" or just "slice." As in, "Can I get 2 plain" or "Can I get a slice" or something along those lines. I grew up in NY but no longer live there so now I'm probably overthinking it.
wrain at 9:50AM on 07/07/09
@HeartofGlass: If you were to say "piece of pizza" in NYC, I think the person behind the counter would say something to the effect of, "No kidding. What kinda slice you want?"
Adam Kuban at 11:25AM on 07/07/09
@wrain: There is no "overthinking it" when it comes to pizza here on Slice.
Adam Kuban at 11:27AM on 07/07/09
Geez, I don't know what I would say since I always get a whole pie at the local pizza joint. The owner might make fun of me when I left his place, but I know that he wants my business and really wouldn't care as long as I put my money on the counter.
@hungry-traveller you might ask for a tomato pie. It's just a thick crust with the tomato sauce and can be really quite tasty.
janaatwg at 3:10PM on 07/08/09
Plain slice all the way...at least in the NYC area. In New England, they have tomato pie - and a plain slice is called a cheese slice. According to the other comments (and with brother, who is sitting next to me and goes to school in Texas) plain slice transcribing to cheese slice seems fairly common in other parts of the country. Maybe due to the prevalence of fast food pizza chains, um, everywhere?
Mdotmet at 4:41PM on 07/08/09
"Plain" or "regular" or just "slice" as ways to denote "no toppings" are all fine with me. What bothers me is hearing "a slice of cheese." It seems to me that that implies that cheese counts as a topping, and that there are pizzas without cheese. Granted, I've seen a few things called pizza without cheese, but that's not what we're talking about here; cheese and sauce are integral parts of the pizza, not toppings. "A slice of pepperoni" make sense, as pepperoni is a topping, but "a slice of cheese" does not.
Lorenzo at 1:56PM on 07/09/09
"May I have a portion of your finest margharita pizza my fine fellow?"
jerkfaceirl at 1:43PM on 07/10/09
This is a totally academic topic for me, because I generally order a pie, and can't remember the last time I had pizza without at least one non-cheese topping. Maybe that disqualifies my opinion, as a lover of garbage pizza...
I like HeartofGlass's arguments against "cheese slice" and "plain slice", but I've also got a (totally geeky) problem with just "slice". It's just ambiguous from an information theory perspective. For example, if you say "and one slice of pepperoni" over the phone (as part of a larger order, say), it could sound like "and one slice ", if you lost signal for a moment.
skizziks at 4:25PM on 07/13/09