You heard it here first, kids, but the New York Times finally filed a story on the Di Fara $5 slice price, so I guess it's officially news now. Best quote of the story: “It’s like they dug up my grandma and she made the pie."
But perhaps the most interesting part of the story is the revelation from Dom's daughter Maggie that something has changed in the way he makes the pies....
Margaret Mieles, Mr. DeMarco’s daughter and Di Fara’s manager, said a number of factors went into the decision to raise prices. The shop has always used expensive imported ingredients, but in the past six months Mr. DeMarco has been more generous with them, part of what she called his new "heavy hand." As a result, she said, more supplies are being ordered more often.
Interesting. People have been commenting for a while now that Dom has been pouring olive oil on the pies before and after baking, and I've noticed it myself, too. I'd also thought the pies were becoming more cheese-laden. But this seems to confirm those observations.
He definitely used the olive oil both pre and post oven when I was there and I definitely mentioned I wish Dom would use less of a heavy hand. Still, the pie was super-tasty, albeit messy! --PB
Yeah, that's too much for a slice. But that is what a pizza is supposed to look like, New Yorkers. And I can tell just by looking at it, that is also what pizza is supposed to taste like. So either shell out the Abe Lincoln, or take the Metro North to New Haven, where all the pizzas look and taste like that.
here's an idea:
how's about using a normal amount of this high quality imported olive oil and cheese and charging a "normal" amount for slices???......come on Dom..$5 for an overly cheesed greasy mess?......you're outta yer bird!!
Believe me folks, a burnt edge on a pizza is a true thing of beauty! The way it dances with the other flavors of the pie is just wonderful. I agree with southlake98 though, less really is more and an overladen pizza can throw off the balance. With only a few ingredients on it. balance is key. Too much oil from the cheese and the olive oil can make it very greasy.
I went to DiFara's for the first time in many years about a year ago. The taste of the pizza was extraordinary, but having said that:
- the place is a dump: smokey, hot, dirty, overflowing trash cans, hasn't been painted in years, etc. I'm actually surprised it can pass a health inspection.
- IMO, the pizza looks bad: it's sort of a grey-yellow-brown color, but it does taste great.
- service is terrible because Mr. DiFara is inefficient and getting up there in years and he won't let anyone help him. Someone else can't cut the parsley? And they don't seem to process the orders in strict order. And don't even try to order anything but pizza because after waiting an hour, they'll tell you that the kitchen is "too busy."
- the pies, as good as they are, are inconsistent. Mine was burnt on one side and not on the other because he doesn't bother to turn the pies when they're in the oven.
Price: Their pizza is certainly worth more, maybe much more, than most other pizza places because of the quality of the ingredients. However, in general, the price of pizza has completely gotten out of hand. In 1965, the price of a slice of pizza was 15 cents and pies generally sold for $1.00 (except in midtown Manhattan). In 1966, along with the price of a subway token, the price of a slice went to 20 cents and a pie to $1.50.
Considering inflation (using the inflation calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics), a slice should now be $1.33 and a pie should be $10, not the $2.25 (in the boroughs) and $3 or more in Manhattan that is charged for a generally inferior slice to what was produced back then. And considering that most pizza (aside from places like Nick's, John's, Lombardi's etc.) uses canned sauce and non-fresh mozzarella that mostly comprises of water and fat, the prices are absurd.
But since there simply aren't that many places that make a great pizza anymore, perhaps Mr. DiFara is not wrong to ask for more for his, but I still think $5 is out of line. Having said that, if I ever pass by and there isn't an absurd line, I will order several slices.
With all the talk of high quality ingredients I am puzzled by something. When I was there Dom had a large can of Bertolli Olive Oil on the self above his counter. If this is the olive oil he uses on the pizza I'll have to question the quality claim.
Bertolli is my average daily use cooking oil.
@Adam
Hey the title you chose "Dom DeMarco and the 'Heavy Hand' " sounds like a real cool name for a mob movie....ha ha
i actually read it thinking something sinister happened
Gianluca http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
@ZoetMD: Careful with the inflaton calculator, especially making generalizations with regards to prices when using it.
That inflation calculator illustrates the loss in the purchasing power of the $USD due to inflation over a chosen time period, but does not take into account that certain sectors/areas of the economy, like the food industry (impacted by agricultural commodities), may in fact experience inflation which is more or less than the purchasing power of a dollar as measured across the entire economy.
In addition, whose slice of pizza was $0.15 in 1965? Is that a national average, in New York, in Brooklyn? What was the price for a slice from a high quality pizzeria in 1965?
What about for pizzeria's that use pre-packaged, domestically sourced ingredients versus ones that obtain ingredients from outside of the country? DiFara, as well as many of the newer Neapolitan inspired pizzerias, source many of their ingredients from overseas. Oil and dollar exchange rates become huge potential carrying costs for these pizzerias. The PPB cost of crude is very volatile and can experience a much different inflationary path than the purchasing power of a $USD, causing potential very rapid spikes in prices.
BTW, most mozzarella, whether aged, fresh fior-di-latte, and especially bufala, is comprised primarilly of water and fat and I, like you, am shocked DiFara can pass a health inspection as well. DiFara's space is to the pizza world what the purposfully neglected, cobweb, spider and dust ridden eves which house the fermentation tanks of Belgian Lambic brewhouses in the Senne Valley are to the beer world. --PB
Dom actually has two types of olive oil on the top of his workstation against the wall. Bertolli is one and the other has a more white label and it begins with a "V". I have pictures of it, but I'm not at home right now.
I'm still surprised that no one has mentioned how much of a "rip off" a place like Pizza Box is banging an 550 PERCENT rake on every slice of pizza compared to Dom's 250% markup.
Why do I care, I'm 200 miles away? Guess I'm just a jerk. --PB
You can only take the value-for-money analysis so far with regards to ingredients. Di Fara or any pizzeria for that matter is a business that sells pizza. It's not a re-seller of imported cheese.
@PB Interesting parallel between lambic beers and DiFara. Now, if Dom started making sourdough crusts!
I went two weeks ago. Paid 60 something for a round and square pie and it was worth it. Yes pizza is generally an inexpensive food but you can easily drop that much on a dinner anywhere in Brooklyn or Manhattan and not have as good a meal. That said I will agree that the pies are inconsistent.
Pizzablogger, I was really surprised when I noticed it. And with all the high end ingredient talk in the press lately regarding the price increase it left me scratching my head. LOL
For example. Chris Bianco uses Queen Creek olive oil made specifically for him. Nick Lessins's of Great Lake uses a excellent one from California Olive Ranch.
But Bertolli and Berio are simply considered a cooking oil. They serve the purpose for what they are but certainly not a finishing oil.
@Pblogger Lemme teach you a little something you may not know about down there in Oriole Country; As goes the slice so goes the subway fare. Or visa versa. In 1965 a slice in NYC was 15 cents. The subway fare went up to 20 cents in 1966 and lo and behold so did a slice in almost every pizza joint in the city. It kept up that way pretty much until present day.
Now I'm off to see Steely Dan perform The Royal Scam at the Beacon in a neighborhood devoid of destination pizza. It looks like it's gonna be a 'Shroom Burger at Shake Shack for me.
@PG: Enjoy seeing the Night Fly and the rest of the boys playing tonight...nice.
@RobertoRx: Dom uses the EVOO. But just like many things, there are huge quality variations within the Extra Virgin grade of olive oils available. I personally use the extra light EVOO from Bertolli to cook with, but their EVOO leaves a lot to be desired, IMO. --PB
Extra light olive oil is just that, not EVOO. It get to be extra light when they do a second pressing and add heat or chemicals for extraction. It's about price point and not quality for a lot of restaurants using EVOO. Without adhering to International Olive Oil Council standards some producers add nut oils and color to their products and sell them as EVOO.
In 1964 slices were 15¢ where I lived in Queens. That was 15¢ for regular or Sicilian. I always got regular and it had thin crust and good char even back then. Some charred bubbles too
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28 Comments:
He definitely used the olive oil both pre and post oven when I was there and I definitely mentioned I wish Dom would use less of a heavy hand. Still, the pie was super-tasty, albeit messy! --PB
Pizzablogger at 12:41PM on 07/31/09
Yeah, that's too much for a slice. But that is what a pizza is supposed to look like, New Yorkers. And I can tell just by looking at it, that is also what pizza is supposed to taste like. So either shell out the Abe Lincoln, or take the Metro North to New Haven, where all the pizzas look and taste like that.
paulandpaul at 1:20PM on 07/31/09
Boy, at least from the peek-a-boo of undercrust in the picture, that pie looks burnt to me, at least near the edge.
Pizzablogger at 1:20PM on 07/31/09
@Pizzablogger, I loved Di Fara when I lived in Brooklyn but I agree, that pizza is burnt.
tdeane at 1:40PM on 07/31/09
Thank god they did this story, DiFara needs more press coverage
Maybe someone will start a thread about them on Chowhound next
f650gsd at 1:49PM on 07/31/09
here's an idea:
how's about using a normal amount of this high quality imported olive oil and cheese and charging a "normal" amount for slices???......come on Dom..$5 for an overly cheesed greasy mess?......you're outta yer bird!!
southlake98 at 2:02PM on 07/31/09
Believe me folks, a burnt edge on a pizza is a true thing of beauty! The way it dances with the other flavors of the pie is just wonderful. I agree with southlake98 though, less really is more and an overladen pizza can throw off the balance. With only a few ingredients on it. balance is key. Too much oil from the cheese and the olive oil can make it very greasy.
billyboy at 2:21PM on 07/31/09
I went to DiFara's for the first time in many years about a year ago. The taste of the pizza was extraordinary, but having said that:
- the place is a dump: smokey, hot, dirty, overflowing trash cans, hasn't been painted in years, etc. I'm actually surprised it can pass a health inspection.
- IMO, the pizza looks bad: it's sort of a grey-yellow-brown color, but it does taste great.
- service is terrible because Mr. DiFara is inefficient and getting up there in years and he won't let anyone help him. Someone else can't cut the parsley? And they don't seem to process the orders in strict order. And don't even try to order anything but pizza because after waiting an hour, they'll tell you that the kitchen is "too busy."
- the pies, as good as they are, are inconsistent. Mine was burnt on one side and not on the other because he doesn't bother to turn the pies when they're in the oven.
Price: Their pizza is certainly worth more, maybe much more, than most other pizza places because of the quality of the ingredients. However, in general, the price of pizza has completely gotten out of hand. In 1965, the price of a slice of pizza was 15 cents and pies generally sold for $1.00 (except in midtown Manhattan). In 1966, along with the price of a subway token, the price of a slice went to 20 cents and a pie to $1.50.
Considering inflation (using the inflation calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics), a slice should now be $1.33 and a pie should be $10, not the $2.25 (in the boroughs) and $3 or more in Manhattan that is charged for a generally inferior slice to what was produced back then. And considering that most pizza (aside from places like Nick's, John's, Lombardi's etc.) uses canned sauce and non-fresh mozzarella that mostly comprises of water and fat, the prices are absurd.
But since there simply aren't that many places that make a great pizza anymore, perhaps Mr. DiFara is not wrong to ask for more for his, but I still think $5 is out of line. Having said that, if I ever pass by and there isn't an absurd line, I will order several slices.
ZoetMB at 2:42PM on 07/31/09
With all the talk of high quality ingredients I am puzzled by something. When I was there Dom had a large can of Bertolli Olive Oil on the self above his counter. If this is the olive oil he uses on the pizza I'll have to question the quality claim.
Bertolli is my average daily use cooking oil.
robert40 at 3:09PM on 07/31/09
That is not a little tasty char on the crust, that pizza is BURNT.
cliffyb at 3:22PM on 07/31/09
@Adam
Hey the title you chose "Dom DeMarco and the 'Heavy Hand' " sounds like a real cool name for a mob movie....ha ha
i actually read it thinking something sinister happened
Gianluca
http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
nextgospel at 3:27PM on 07/31/09
I stand corrected not Bertolli but Berio.
robert40 at 3:29PM on 07/31/09
@ZoetMD: Careful with the inflaton calculator, especially making generalizations with regards to prices when using it.
That inflation calculator illustrates the loss in the purchasing power of the $USD due to inflation over a chosen time period, but does not take into account that certain sectors/areas of the economy, like the food industry (impacted by agricultural commodities), may in fact experience inflation which is more or less than the purchasing power of a dollar as measured across the entire economy.
In addition, whose slice of pizza was $0.15 in 1965? Is that a national average, in New York, in Brooklyn? What was the price for a slice from a high quality pizzeria in 1965?
What about for pizzeria's that use pre-packaged, domestically sourced ingredients versus ones that obtain ingredients from outside of the country? DiFara, as well as many of the newer Neapolitan inspired pizzerias, source many of their ingredients from overseas. Oil and dollar exchange rates become huge potential carrying costs for these pizzerias. The PPB cost of crude is very volatile and can experience a much different inflationary path than the purchasing power of a $USD, causing potential very rapid spikes in prices.
BTW, most mozzarella, whether aged, fresh fior-di-latte, and especially bufala, is comprised primarilly of water and fat and I, like you, am shocked DiFara can pass a health inspection as well. DiFara's space is to the pizza world what the purposfully neglected, cobweb, spider and dust ridden eves which house the fermentation tanks of Belgian Lambic brewhouses in the Senne Valley are to the beer world. --PB
Pizzablogger at 3:38PM on 07/31/09
Dom actually has two types of olive oil on the top of his workstation against the wall. Bertolli is one and the other has a more white label and it begins with a "V". I have pictures of it, but I'm not at home right now.
I'm still surprised that no one has mentioned how much of a "rip off" a place like Pizza Box is banging an 550 PERCENT rake on every slice of pizza compared to Dom's 250% markup.
Why do I care, I'm 200 miles away? Guess I'm just a jerk. --PB
Pizzablogger at 3:45PM on 07/31/09
You can only take the value-for-money analysis so far with regards to ingredients. Di Fara or any pizzeria for that matter is a business that sells pizza. It's not a re-seller of imported cheese.
@PB Interesting parallel between lambic beers and DiFara. Now, if Dom started making sourdough crusts!
FP
foolishpoolish at 3:48PM on 07/31/09
I went two weeks ago. Paid 60 something for a round and square pie and it was worth it. Yes pizza is generally an inexpensive food but you can easily drop that much on a dinner anywhere in Brooklyn or Manhattan and not have as good a meal. That said I will agree that the pies are inconsistent.
bobbob at 3:57PM on 07/31/09
I raised the question because in the article Dom expressed in his own words as much that better ingredients justified the price increase.
robert40 at 3:58PM on 07/31/09
@Toby: An acidic sour tang on Dom's crust would be ridiculous....now I'd buy that for $5!
Pizzablogger at 4:00PM on 07/31/09
@Robert 40: I agree with you wholeheartedly about the Bertolli. It ain't super quality olive oil.
Pizzablogger at 4:01PM on 07/31/09
Pizzablogger, I was really surprised when I noticed it. And with all the high end ingredient talk in the press lately regarding the price increase it left me scratching my head. LOL
For example. Chris Bianco uses Queen Creek olive oil made specifically for him. Nick Lessins's of Great Lake uses a excellent one from California Olive Ranch.
But Bertolli and Berio are simply considered a cooking oil. They serve the purpose for what they are but certainly not a finishing oil.
robert40 at 4:23PM on 07/31/09
@Pblogger Lemme teach you a little something you may not know about down there in Oriole Country; As goes the slice so goes the subway fare. Or visa versa. In 1965 a slice in NYC was 15 cents. The subway fare went up to 20 cents in 1966 and lo and behold so did a slice in almost every pizza joint in the city. It kept up that way pretty much until present day.
Now I'm off to see Steely Dan perform The Royal Scam at the Beacon in a neighborhood devoid of destination pizza. It looks like it's gonna be a 'Shroom Burger at Shake Shack for me.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 4:41PM on 07/31/09
There are different grades of Bertoli/Berio from Light to Extra Virgin.
RobertoRx at 4:46PM on 07/31/09
@PG: Enjoy seeing the Night Fly and the rest of the boys playing tonight...nice.
@RobertoRx: Dom uses the EVOO. But just like many things, there are huge quality variations within the Extra Virgin grade of olive oils available. I personally use the extra light EVOO from Bertolli to cook with, but their EVOO leaves a lot to be desired, IMO. --PB
Pizzablogger at 4:55PM on 07/31/09
Check the many fickr photos showing the can on the shelf. Even extra virgin Bertolli/Berio is at bare minimum average olive oil at best.
robert40 at 4:59PM on 07/31/09
Maybe at $6 a slice Dom will start drizzling Manni on the pizza.LOL
robert40 at 5:05PM on 07/31/09
Extra light olive oil is just that, not EVOO. It get to be extra light when they do a second pressing and add heat or chemicals for extraction. It's about price point and not quality for a lot of restaurants using EVOO. Without adhering to International Olive Oil Council standards some producers add nut oils and color to their products and sell them as EVOO.
Raoul Duke at 5:35PM on 07/31/09
In 1964 slices were 15¢ where I lived in Queens. That was 15¢ for regular or Sicilian. I always got regular and it had thin crust and good char even back then. Some charred bubbles too
gaffer at 7:06PM on 07/31/09
I agree with cliffyb. That crust is burnt. Other than that, it looks unbelievably tasty.
Mooner at 12:32PM on 08/01/09