"They must be out of their minds. It would have to be the best slice of pizza in the world," said Phyllis Turim of Brooklyn, who doesn't plan to find out for herself.
Counterpoint
"When I shop, I always buy what's high-priced," [Dom DeMarco] said. "What I use, other pizzerias don't use."
Yours truly was quoted as well, if you feel the need to read the opinion of this windbag in a publication other than Slice.
I think the reality is that slice overall have gone up, but people haven't caught up to that yet. My local pizza place (which is no great shakes) charges $3.50 for a slice with toppings now, and I've seen that become the standard at a lot of other place. A slice of Artichoke is hovering around the $5 range too. I think for better or for worse, Di Fara's has just become the pizza price barometer, because its always been pricier, and far superior than most slices.
First, I'd love for someone to tell me exactly what $2.50 tastes like, other than a dirty, linen based and ink printed piece of shitty currency? Is DiFara twice as good tasting as Rizzo's or Pizza Box? Who can even quantify that?
I think $5 for a slice is pretty damned expensive, but so is the cost of what is on top of the pizza, a cost which will go up during times the dollar wanes against the Euro. I think the $5 price is steep for an everyday slice, but the slice you get DOES taste better than most every other by-the-slice shop I have ever been to.
Most pizzerias offering this level of high quality toppings and flavor do not even offer pizza by the slice, so being able to get a portion of that quality for $5 is a deal when viewed in this context.
If locals are getting squeezed out by the tourists, then that is somewhat sad, but looking at the percentage markups on the prices of pizza listed in the article, what's really the big effing deal? --PB
I can tell you as the pizza expert, I am not about to go back, out of my way to find parking, to wait in line to pay $5.00 a slice. Just not happening. Nothing can justify that cost.
They should do what they do in Hawaii...tourists pay the full price and locals get the kama'aina rate. Just charge the premium to those in fanny packs and bike shorts.
Note to self:
* Leave the fanny pack and bike shorts at home.
* Bring camera - that way no one will figure me for a tourist - I'll just be another food blogger ;-)
@Paulie Gee: Yep, tourists just like me. If once in a while pizza tourists like me have to pay a higher cost which would allow more local people to pay canerosso's "kama'aina" prices, I think that's a fair shake for all involved. Although that won't solve the lines.
I also agree with pizzaexpert about the lines. No way in hell am I waiting on-line for one or two hourse for any slice, regardless of the price. Too many good pizza places in NYC to wait that long! --PB
Just to clarify, so nobody's feelings are bruised, when I mentioned "pizza tourists," I included myself in that lot. Basically anybody from out of the neighborhood for whom Di Fara is a destination spot. Unlike many of my fellow residents, I have nothing against tourists to NYC—unless they're in my way on the bike path over the Brooklyn Bridge.
If anyone watches "No Reservations", Anthony Bourdain chooses where he eats (most of the time) based on where the locals eat. He claims this is the mark of good food. So, my question is whether or not Di Fara makes good pizza or if its a tourist trap? Do locals still eat there? Would a local recommend it? When I come to NY for a "Pizza Crawl" this fall, I want to eat where the locals eat. I dont want to eat somewhere just because it was listed in some tourist pamphlet or seen on tv.
@Paulie Gee: How was your pizza this weekend? Did the fermentation switch work out for you? I changed up my dough recipe a little bit this weekend and got the consistency I wanted but it tasted weird. I dont know how else to describe it except for it tasted white. Buh. I dunno.
@forza: Yes. The "locals" eat there—if by "locals," you mean New Yorkers in general, both from the neighborhood and outside the neighborhood. It is definitely worth it. Most actual tourists to NYC don't go to Di Fara unless they're foodies and/or pizza freaks because it's quite a trip away from where most tourists stay and visit.
If you are a true pizza fan, you owe it to yourself to try Di Fara. Even if you end up hating it, how can you visit NYC at this point and not try it?
Case Closed! Thanks Adam. I’ll be eating Di Fara if I have to wait 4 hours for a slice. It’s been on my list since I started planning this trip but the comments to this article made me second guess myself. Thanks for bringing me back. I promise I’ll leave my fanny pack and oversized map at the hotel haha.
listen everyone
just until recently it was a high $4 a slice
and people still traveled a long way, waited 2 hours and paid the $4.
why does everyone have their panties in a bunch?
what? now for $1 extra dollar, the whole dream is shattered?
yes it is high, but
a) you do not have to go.
this is still (somewhat) of a free market and there are other choices......unless you are mad cuz you know the others might not be as good...which begs the question...
b) it may be worth it COMPARED to others
c)businesses have costs, prices pay for those costs
d)Though i gave up going because i had a nervous breakdown waiting..i actually never ate difara..but i could see the pizzas and know that it's better than 99% of other slice joints...i know those ingredients COST
and you pay for what you get
d) AGAIN, since the whole thing is a procedure and consists of a long, planned trip, a known waiting period, AND a high cost...the extra dollar is insignificant.
it's like having to walk 100 blocks and then when you reach 90, you say to yourself " forget it. i'm tired. it's not worth it".
COME ON at that point what's the difference?
e) if it doesn't work, the price would come down and if the increase caused any damage, it would decrease waiting times, BUT the decrease to the old prices would add MORE waiting time, forcing you to ask yourself, "would i pay a bit more to get the pizza quicker?"
@Gianluca: if you are planning your long trip accordingly, the waiting period may be greatly diminished if you take some time off one day. Go during the weekday after lunch between 3 and close of lunch at 4:30. Busy weekend and weeknight hours are for amateurs.
Go sooner than later and report back on what you think. If I were you, I'd brown bag a bottle of Gragnano to accompany the slice(s) --PB
After 6 years in NY i finally went to Di Fara for first time this past thursday. Adam, I actually saw you walking by as I was getting dropped off at 5th and Union and thought to offer you one of my left over slices but by the time i got out the car you were already down the street. As for the pizza, we dropped over $140 there that night between 5 of us and it was worth every penny
@pizzablogger yeah i went 2 years ago after listening to one of those inspirational things on audio.
and i said "you know what? i'll go all the way to brooklyn by myself and i'll see what i get. who know's? waiting can lead me to something else? "
YEAH RIGHT ha ha
it was on a SUNDAY afternoon time
talk about stupid of me!!
Gianluca "no difara pizza for me cuz i couldn't take the wait" Rottura
I tried DiFara, I ended up hating it. For all the talk about the quality ingredients Dom uses, no one ever mentions that he puts so many on(particularly the extra virgin) that most of the crust, save the outside edge, is a sopping mess. Great crust is the pillar of great pizza and although it may potentially be great crust before he goes for the second, yes second, dousing of oil...it certainly isn't afterward.
As far as price goes, I would have no problem paying $5 for a slice of heaven, but I'm not going back to DiFara's whether its $5 or $1.
"We have no quarrel with the man who sells cheaper pizza...He knows what his is worth!"
Founded by Shakeys,plagerised by UPN, practiced by Dom.
Pulling the dough over the eyes of the lemmings who blindly follow is nothing new,He is just happily filling the void of the departed.At least he has "Paid his dues".All he needs to do now is take another day off, run out of dough and generally piss people off .Bonne Chance.
Dom sounds like one of those "delicate geniuses" that George Costanza refers to. He's like a crazy artist. Try as you might, you are not going to change the way he creates his art. We have them where I live. That being said, I just don't have time or energy for these types of restaurants that do things like close when they are out of dough, run out of menu items, have operating hours that change on their whim, or make you wait 2 hours for a product that should cook in 10 minutes or less. That's just poor management. Sounds like Dom needs a restaurant MANAGER. He is the artist. Artists can't manage! Turning tables or selling more pizzas is how you make money.
I guess I am a pizza tourist, just like someone who likes wine may tour Napa or France. I have experienced Sally's in New Haven which has to be the worst service ever. I sat in the restaurant for 2 hours waiting for a pizza after ordering. The staff moves like they are zombies. Yes, it was great, but I went to Patsy's East Harlem, ordered my pizza and it was delivered to the table about 5 minutes later!!! And it was great also!
@kirkharrod It seems to me that the last thing Dom needs is a manager. As much as I am discouraged by the long and disorderly lines at diFara, I am the first to admit that those legendary waits are one of the secrets to his wild popularity. If you look at DiFara's, Lucali, Bianco and the late UPN, they all have a modest seating capacity, short hours (with the exception of Dom) and a proprietor who carefully constructs the pies himself. And they always have lines.
@alberto I was not able to do the one day fermentation because I had to go right from work to Lucali before attending a concert in Prospect Park so I had to make the dough on Thursday night. Here are the results:
@gabagool: Welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while. The size of a Di Fara slice is 1/8th of a pie about (from memory and without the benefit of ever having measured it) 16 inches, maybe 18 inches, across.
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29 Comments:
I think the reality is that slice overall have gone up, but people haven't caught up to that yet. My local pizza place (which is no great shakes) charges $3.50 for a slice with toppings now, and I've seen that become the standard at a lot of other place. A slice of Artichoke is hovering around the $5 range too. I think for better or for worse, Di Fara's has just become the pizza price barometer, because its always been pricier, and far superior than most slices.
JudgeFudge at 10:32AM on 07/27/09
Based on the owner provided info as cited in the article.
Cost to pizzeria per slice--cost to customer--markup:
Pizza Box: $0.50 -- $2.75 -- 550.00% markup
Rizzo's : $0.63 -- $2.50 -- 396.83% markup
Da Vinci's: $0.88 -- $2.50 -- 284.09% markup
Di Fara: $2.00 -- $5.00 -- 250.00% markup
First, I'd love for someone to tell me exactly what $2.50 tastes like, other than a dirty, linen based and ink printed piece of shitty currency? Is DiFara twice as good tasting as Rizzo's or Pizza Box? Who can even quantify that?
I think $5 for a slice is pretty damned expensive, but so is the cost of what is on top of the pizza, a cost which will go up during times the dollar wanes against the Euro. I think the $5 price is steep for an everyday slice, but the slice you get DOES taste better than most every other by-the-slice shop I have ever been to.
Most pizzerias offering this level of high quality toppings and flavor do not even offer pizza by the slice, so being able to get a portion of that quality for $5 is a deal when viewed in this context.
If locals are getting squeezed out by the tourists, then that is somewhat sad, but looking at the percentage markups on the prices of pizza listed in the article, what's really the big effing deal? --PB
Pizzablogger at 10:48AM on 07/27/09
I can tell you as the pizza expert, I am not about to go back, out of my way to find parking, to wait in line to pay $5.00 a slice. Just not happening. Nothing can justify that cost.
pizzaexpert at 11:30AM on 07/27/09
They should do what they do in Hawaii...tourists pay the full price and locals get the kama'aina rate. Just charge the premium to those in fanny packs and bike shorts.
canerosso at 11:38AM on 07/27/09
@canerosso.......that's definitely an idea, and not a bad one at that :)
Pizzablogger at 11:50AM on 07/27/09
@pizzablogger Tourists? You mean like the ones who drive many hours from locales like, oh I don't know......Baltimore, just for a slice?
@pizzaexpert I'm proud of you. No mention whatsoever about your site or it's related reviews. Good job.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 12:41PM on 07/27/09
what's the big deal? if not enough people go, he'll lower the prices. What's likely to happen is that people are still going to go.
foodinmouth at 12:46PM on 07/27/09
Note to self:
* Leave the fanny pack and bike shorts at home.
* Bring camera - that way no one will figure me for a tourist - I'll just be another food blogger ;-)
FP
foolishpoolish at 12:50PM on 07/27/09
@Paulie Gee: Yep, tourists just like me. If once in a while pizza tourists like me have to pay a higher cost which would allow more local people to pay canerosso's "kama'aina" prices, I think that's a fair shake for all involved. Although that won't solve the lines.
I also agree with pizzaexpert about the lines. No way in hell am I waiting on-line for one or two hourse for any slice, regardless of the price. Too many good pizza places in NYC to wait that long! --PB
Pizzablogger at 12:58PM on 07/27/09
Just to clarify, so nobody's feelings are bruised, when I mentioned "pizza tourists," I included myself in that lot. Basically anybody from out of the neighborhood for whom Di Fara is a destination spot. Unlike many of my fellow residents, I have nothing against tourists to NYC—unless they're in my way on the bike path over the Brooklyn Bridge.
Adam Kuban at 1:07PM on 07/27/09
If anyone watches "No Reservations", Anthony Bourdain chooses where he eats (most of the time) based on where the locals eat. He claims this is the mark of good food. So, my question is whether or not Di Fara makes good pizza or if its a tourist trap? Do locals still eat there? Would a local recommend it? When I come to NY for a "Pizza Crawl" this fall, I want to eat where the locals eat. I dont want to eat somewhere just because it was listed in some tourist pamphlet or seen on tv.
@Paulie Gee: How was your pizza this weekend? Did the fermentation switch work out for you? I changed up my dough recipe a little bit this weekend and got the consistency I wanted but it tasted weird. I dont know how else to describe it except for it tasted white. Buh. I dunno.
FORZA PIZZA!
Alberto
forzapizza at 1:24PM on 07/27/09
@forza: Yes. The "locals" eat there—if by "locals," you mean New Yorkers in general, both from the neighborhood and outside the neighborhood. It is definitely worth it. Most actual tourists to NYC don't go to Di Fara unless they're foodies and/or pizza freaks because it's quite a trip away from where most tourists stay and visit.
If you are a true pizza fan, you owe it to yourself to try Di Fara. Even if you end up hating it, how can you visit NYC at this point and not try it?
Adam Kuban at 1:28PM on 07/27/09
Case Closed! Thanks Adam. I’ll be eating Di Fara if I have to wait 4 hours for a slice. It’s been on my list since I started planning this trip but the comments to this article made me second guess myself. Thanks for bringing me back. I promise I’ll leave my fanny pack and oversized map at the hotel haha.
forzapizza at 2:05PM on 07/27/09
listen everyone
just until recently it was a high $4 a slice
and people still traveled a long way, waited 2 hours and paid the $4.
why does everyone have their panties in a bunch?
what? now for $1 extra dollar, the whole dream is shattered?
yes it is high, but
a) you do not have to go.
this is still (somewhat) of a free market and there are other choices......unless you are mad cuz you know the others might not be as good...which begs the question...
b) it may be worth it COMPARED to others
c)businesses have costs, prices pay for those costs
d)Though i gave up going because i had a nervous breakdown waiting..i actually never ate difara..but i could see the pizzas and know that it's better than 99% of other slice joints...i know those ingredients COST
and you pay for what you get
d) AGAIN, since the whole thing is a procedure and consists of a long, planned trip, a known waiting period, AND a high cost...the extra dollar is insignificant.
it's like having to walk 100 blocks and then when you reach 90, you say to yourself " forget it. i'm tired. it's not worth it".
COME ON at that point what's the difference?
e) if it doesn't work, the price would come down and if the increase caused any damage, it would decrease waiting times, BUT the decrease to the old prices would add MORE waiting time, forcing you to ask yourself, "would i pay a bit more to get the pizza quicker?"
think about it
Gianluca Pio Rottura
http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
nextgospel at 2:30PM on 07/27/09
@Gianluca: if you are planning your long trip accordingly, the waiting period may be greatly diminished if you take some time off one day. Go during the weekday after lunch between 3 and close of lunch at 4:30. Busy weekend and weeknight hours are for amateurs.
Go sooner than later and report back on what you think. If I were you, I'd brown bag a bottle of Gragnano to accompany the slice(s) --PB
Pizzablogger at 3:22PM on 07/27/09
After 6 years in NY i finally went to Di Fara for first time this past thursday. Adam, I actually saw you walking by as I was getting dropped off at 5th and Union and thought to offer you one of my left over slices but by the time i got out the car you were already down the street. As for the pizza, we dropped over $140 there that night between 5 of us and it was worth every penny
LucaL at 3:58PM on 07/27/09
D'oh! Curses on walking too fast! That probably was me, LucaL. I live near Fifth and Union.
Adam Kuban at 4:05PM on 07/27/09
@pizzablogger yeah i went 2 years ago after listening to one of those inspirational things on audio.
and i said "you know what? i'll go all the way to brooklyn by myself and i'll see what i get. who know's? waiting can lead me to something else? "
YEAH RIGHT ha ha
it was on a SUNDAY afternoon time
talk about stupid of me!!
Gianluca "no difara pizza for me cuz i couldn't take the wait" Rottura
nextgospel at 4:56PM on 07/27/09
@adam
I tried DiFara, I ended up hating it. For all the talk about the quality ingredients Dom uses, no one ever mentions that he puts so many on(particularly the extra virgin) that most of the crust, save the outside edge, is a sopping mess. Great crust is the pillar of great pizza and although it may potentially be great crust before he goes for the second, yes second, dousing of oil...it certainly isn't afterward.
As far as price goes, I would have no problem paying $5 for a slice of heaven, but I'm not going back to DiFara's whether its $5 or $1.
EazyB at 5:43PM on 07/27/09
"We have no quarrel with the man who sells cheaper pizza...He knows what his is worth!"
Founded by Shakeys,plagerised by UPN, practiced by Dom.
Pulling the dough over the eyes of the lemmings who blindly follow is nothing new,He is just happily filling the void of the departed.At least he has "Paid his dues".All he needs to do now is take another day off, run out of dough and generally piss people off .Bonne Chance.
seriouspizza at 10:10PM on 07/27/09
Yes the pizza slice has gone up, but $5??? Should include a small side or at least a drink!
jlewfoodie at 5:03AM on 07/28/09
For curiosities sake, does anyone know if Dom owns the building DiFara is in, or is he leasing it?
Pizzablogger at 6:56AM on 07/28/09
Dom sounds like one of those "delicate geniuses" that George Costanza refers to. He's like a crazy artist. Try as you might, you are not going to change the way he creates his art. We have them where I live. That being said, I just don't have time or energy for these types of restaurants that do things like close when they are out of dough, run out of menu items, have operating hours that change on their whim, or make you wait 2 hours for a product that should cook in 10 minutes or less. That's just poor management. Sounds like Dom needs a restaurant MANAGER. He is the artist. Artists can't manage! Turning tables or selling more pizzas is how you make money.
I guess I am a pizza tourist, just like someone who likes wine may tour Napa or France. I have experienced Sally's in New Haven which has to be the worst service ever. I sat in the restaurant for 2 hours waiting for a pizza after ordering. The staff moves like they are zombies. Yes, it was great, but I went to Patsy's East Harlem, ordered my pizza and it was delivered to the table about 5 minutes later!!! And it was great also!
kirkharrod at 10:02AM on 07/28/09
@kirkharrod It seems to me that the last thing Dom needs is a manager. As much as I am discouraged by the long and disorderly lines at diFara, I am the first to admit that those legendary waits are one of the secrets to his wild popularity. If you look at DiFara's, Lucali, Bianco and the late UPN, they all have a modest seating capacity, short hours (with the exception of Dom) and a proprietor who carefully constructs the pies himself. And they always have lines.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 1:42PM on 07/28/09
@Paulie: There may be another person to add to that list in the not too distant future me thinks ;-)
Pizzablogger at 2:22PM on 07/28/09
$3.52 for a sorry ass sausage slice on Colunbus and 58th. And when I gave her $3.55, she kept the 3 cents change.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 9:23PM on 07/28/09
@alberto I was not able to do the one day fermentation because I had to go right from work to Lucali before attending a concert in Prospect Park so I had to make the dough on Thursday night. Here are the results:
http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/07/video-which-way-to-paulie-gees.html
http://blondieandbrownie.blogspot.com/2009/07/ten-course-pizza-tasting-with-paulie.html
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
pauliegee at 8:02AM on 07/29/09
5 bucks for a slice of "the best pizza in the world" (opinion)
or 8 bucks for a 5 oz glass of wine? The 5 seems like a bargain to me.
It all boils down to two types of people. You either want quality or quanity.
PS Plus whats the size of a slice in NY? That would make a big difference. Is it a quarter of an 18" pie? IF so, that ain't bad at all.
gabagool at 9:57AM on 09/16/09
@gabagool: Welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while. The size of a Di Fara slice is 1/8th of a pie about (from memory and without the benefit of ever having measured it) 16 inches, maybe 18 inches, across.
Adam Kuban at 10:47AM on 09/16/09